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Offline cookee_nz  
#1 Posted : 30 November 2011 13:40:16(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,686
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Some of you will have seen this image which goes some way toward identifying the different stages of M-track production. It's quite helpful but my recent acquisition has added a couple to the mix.

The original image is from the book "Märklin 50 Jahre H0 1935 - 1985" (50 years of H0"

Compare my own track that I have added images for and notice the variations which are not shown in the book reference.

I note that in the book, the track appears to follow a pattern on the track style and where the mounting holes are placed. Or are the screw holes irrelevant?

The earliest version of 24-sleeper track has the holes on the left (top end of picture), next to the 6th sleeper.

Then the holes move one sleeper toward the ends and swap to the right side and then mover closer to the end again.

I have arranged my track in the same order but have also included underside view of the same track because the position of the red "Marklin" also changes. I've also included 3600A curves for comparison.

From left to right the details are:

Pair 1: Screw holes on the left side, next to the 5th sleeper. Note position of red Marklin underside. Possibly these should be placed between 1949/50 and 1950/51.

** PS: What is the difference between the 50/51 track and the 52/55 track? - the road bed colour/ballast, the center rail (black vs. nickel)?

Pair 2: Screw holes now on the right, next to 5th sleeper. Appears to be same as 1952/55.

Pair 3: Same as pair two except for red Marklin position and the trackbed colour.

These tracks were scanned rather than photographed. Funnily enough, in the scan, the tint of the trackbed is quite noticeable between them - to my naked eye it's not so obvious (old age) so it's been a little hard for me to sort them by trackbed colour.

All of these tracks have rolled rails - but I have one single piece, 24 sleepers, hole on the left, 5th sleeper down and this one has solid (brass?) rails.

I don't have any 51xx stud track here in Melbourne so I'm limiting this just to 3600 track for the time being. I'd be interested in variations that others might have if anyone wants to contribute.

The only other difference is the placement of the grounding socket - some are on the left, some are on the right. I don't think this makes any difference, more likely just how they were placed in the jig which fitted them. But the screw holes and underside stamping point more toward specific tooling production changes and maybe worth documenting.

And a final note regarding the screw holes. On all my K-track, the screw holes are on the right, through the third sleeper from the top end. On all my C-track, they are on the right, between the 5th/6th sleepers. (Left and Right are defined as looking at the top end of a piece held vertically as in the pictures)

Cheers

Cookee
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
M-Track variations.jpg
M-3600D-variations-cr.jpg
3600A-variations-cr.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Ian555  
#2 Posted : 30 November 2011 14:02:12(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,051
Location: Scotland
Hi Steve,

Very interesting, some of the information was covered on my Münstertal topic.

Over the last year, I've been buying considerable amounts of 1935 to 1955 solid rail track for my new layout.

A small section of the new layout will be using 1935 (16 sleeper) tracks only.


Looking forward to more input from forum members.

Thanks again Steve.

Ian.
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Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 30 November 2011 20:29:42(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,686
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steve,

Very interesting, some of the information was covered on my Münstertal topic.

Over the last year, I've been buying considerable amounts of 1935 to 1955 solid rail track for my new layout.

A small section of the new layout will be using 1935 (16 sleeper) tracks only.

Looking forward to more input from forum members.

Thanks again Steve.

Ian.


Hi Ian,

Yes I saw that, I know there had been some discussion in another thread also where the image came up but rather than ressurect an older semi-related thread I felt it better to be topic specific.

There was a quantity of the earlier 16-sleeper track also with the HR800 but only the 1936-40 type (same as the 50-year book image), and as there appears to be little variation in those I have not included them in this topic, unless additional variants come up.

When I made the test-run of the HR800 in the floor I used half-half, not sure if you saw that - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9TpvLe60a4

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Ian555  
#4 Posted : 30 November 2011 20:51:02(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,051
Location: Scotland
Hi Steve,

Somehow, I had missed your video, thanks for the link. ThumpUp

Ian.


Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2011 02:47:26(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,604
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

...

only the 1936-40 type (same as the 50-year book image), and as there appears to be little variation in those I have not included them in this topic, unless additional variants come up.

...

Cheers

Steve


Hi Steve,

As far as I know there are at least 2 variations from that time frame. One with silver / shiny rails and the other with dark black rails. Possibly a third which was used late pre-war (I see it in 1945 PX sets) but that might be actually from 1941-1943.

Here a rather incomplete survey of early 00 tracks:

http://marklinstop.com/2...in-00ho-track-1935-1950/

Regards,

Paul
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Offline frankNL  
#6 Posted : 04 January 2012 22:02:49(UTC)
frankNL

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 59
Location: the netherlands
Hello Steve,

What to think of this discussion on the 'Forum alte Modelbahnen'
(ofcourse in German, but with pictures)

http://alte-modellbahnen...AA-oder-AR-oder-was.html

regards
Frank
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Offline Janne75  
#7 Posted : 31 May 2014 00:12:17(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,538
Location: Finland
Hi,

I will reply to this old topic as today I got 110 pieces more Märklin 3600 solid center rail track pieces (3600D and 3600A). I realize that there are many variations of these when I looked at them closer. I found more information from Google and then this topic here. I got a lot of the older variant with solid brass rails manufactured in between the years 1947-1952. These have the red printings "MÄRKLIN" and "Germany" more in the center and not in the very end of the tracks. They have more transparent plastic insulators and the newer 1954 => have the bright white non transparent insulators. Most of these brass rails are now in my garage and I will use them on the 1950's solid center rail layout.

Then I looked at my previous purchased 3600 tracks. I have at the moment only one 1/2 straight section and it has also solid brass rails. Also all my turnouts have them. But none of my previous purchased 3600 full lenght straight or curved tracks are these older variants.

Thanks to the info and my close inspection of the differences I found out today that I have 12 straight track sections from the year 1953 = aluminium roadbed! ThumpUp I can give a hint how these are easily recognized. These have the screw holes in the same way as the older brass rails from 1947-1952, similar looking insulators (looking a bit transparent and not bright white). But no brass rails. And the red colour "MÄRKLIN" and "Germany" text are in the same place than in the older ones. To be sure that these are aluminium I took a magnet and as it does not stick to these tracks roadbed like to other metal 3600 tracks etc. they are then aluminium.

Then there are many of the 1954-1956 tracks with those bright white insulators and normal roadbed (no aluminium). In my opinion the earlier ones in this time period must be the ones with the text like in older tracks above and the latest 3600 series tracks are the ones where these text are in the end of the tracks. These 1954-1956 tracks have the screw holes differently than the previous older 1947-1953 tracks.

I can maybe take some photos tomorrow and post here to show you all the differences.

There is coming a lot of shorter 3600 series track sections and 35 more curved full lenght (188 mm) tracks. Also old bridges with solid center rails Smile .

It is amazing how much information there are available for these 58-67 years old Märkin tracks. What do you think about Märklin's decision to stop manufacturing brass rails? Was it for cutting manufacturing costs or something else? In my opinion that was the reason. The conductivity is very good with brass rails, so I will use them and also the aluminium straight sections on my layout.

I have two turntables 410 NG from 1952-1957 (with brass rails) and 7186 from 1966 and it has normal rails. Other than this 410 NG has that red light lit on it's cabin roof when it operates and 7186 has not. Different colours and motor looks different also.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#8 Posted: : 31 May 2014 09:11:02(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
What do you think about Märklin's decision to stop manufacturing brass rails? Was it for cutting manufacturing costs or something else?


Hi Janne,

It was the Korean War. This war caused a material-shortage which was the reason for returning to alloy and substitute brass in some parts of the production. They were not able to get enough tin-plate and brass for the hole production. Other products affected were the metal construction kits and the 346 cars with a tin-plate body and an alloy chassis.
In addition the allocation of some rare materials in Germany was controlled by the state until 1955. I'm sure at that authority they knew some more useful things to use the remaining brass for, than toy-rails.

Regards

Markus
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Offline bodger  
#9 Posted : 31 May 2014 12:22:14(UTC)
bodger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 29/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: south
Hi everyone

I am planning a layout in solid third rail track. I bought a few straights and curves last week and I thought that in the hand they felt lighter than the track that I already have. I am away from my layout so can't compare them directly. I appreciate this is only a rough method of judgement but the impression was immediate and strong. Does anyone have information about the relative weight of these different tracks?

Great posts

Bodger
Offline Janne75  
#10 Posted : 31 May 2014 13:02:54(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,538
Location: Finland
Hi,

Thank you Markus. Very interesting to know the reason for Märklin to stop using brass rails. 3600 tracks are much lighter than the newer M-tracks and the 1953 aluminium roadbed tracks are even lighter.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#11 Posted : 31 May 2014 19:19:21(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,538
Location: Finland
Hi again,

"Normal" Märklin 5106 M-track straight 180 mm track without solid center rail weight 35 grams. Older 1947-1952 3600 D straight 180 mm track with solid center rail and brass rails weight 38 grams. 1953 3600 D straight 180 mm track with aluminium roadbed and solid center rail, but without brass rails weight is only 21 grams. 1954-1956 3600 D straight 180 mm track with solid center rail weight is 36 or 38 grams depending where those red "MÄRKLIN" and "Germany" text are. 36 grams for those having these text more towards the middle and 38 grams for those having these text more towards the end of the track.

I just noticed one more difference and this must have also something to do with the weight differences. Older 1947-1952 and the 36 gram version (having the text more towards the middle) have kind of more round rail profile. 1953 aluminium roadbed tracks and the 38 gram versions (having the text more towards the end of track) have sharper rail profile. So it seems like this sharper track profile weighs more than the more round profile rail. Aluminium tracks (1953) are the lightest anyway even with these kind of rails.

So just ignore my previous posting regarding the normal M-track vs. 3600 track weight. It depends of the versions of 3600 tracks and the aluminium 1953 are the really lightweight ones.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#12 Posted : 31 May 2014 20:08:28(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,538
Location: Finland
Hi once again Wink ,

Here are some photos of these four different variants. I also noticed again another difference. 1953 aluminium tracks screw holes are like in 1947-1952 with brass rails, but they are located in the same distance than the 1954-1956, but on the different side. So there are then three different screw hole location variants in these 3600 tracks. From left to right 1947-1952 with brass rails (38 grams), 1953 without brass rails but with aluminium roadbed and sharper rail profile (21 grams), 1954-1956? with more round rail profile like the brass rail variant (36 grams) and on the right 1954-1956? with sharper rail profile (38 grams):

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


I would be glad if someone could confirm when the rail profile was round and when it was sharper (by this I mean flat top profile)? They started with "round" brass rail 1947-1952, then changed for sharper profile in 1953, but after this they continued with one of these and ended with another... Blink

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline LMS800  
#13 Posted : 01 June 2014 18:56:31(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 162
Hello cooky,
interesting post.
But I have a small amendment: the track "1935" you show on picture 1 is from 1936.
In 1935 the centre rail was 1 mm, and was changed 1936 to 2 mm.
This track from 1936 has two versions: early 1936 marked "Märklin Germany", later changed to " Märklin Made in Germany".

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Regards
Wolf
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