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DasBert33		#1 Posted : 30 May 2010 12:52:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,245		Hi all, While browsing Ebay for Era II DRG stuff I noticed the newly delivered E19 (19192) is different from the pictures in the catalogue, and even from the pictures on the box. IMHO this changes the looks of the model dramatically in a bad way. I have a DRG E18 (37681) and E19 (3769) myself and they have the correct front and end couplers. It would be just ugly to place this model next to them. Is Marklin cutting corners (again), like with the green of the PRR mikado, the condensor piping on the BR53 without condensor tender, ... ? Does the model have additional parts to be mounted to look as in the catalogue or does it stay like this? What do you think about it? Bert PS: this is good for my wallet, as at the moment I feel no urge whatsoever to buy the 19192. Edit: added some pics (stolen from ebay, dunno whether the links keep working): How it should look: The delivered model: Edited by user 30 May 2010 21:11:21(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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dragos		#2 Posted : 30 May 2010 22:46:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 40 Location: Sweden		Dasbert33: couldn't it be so, that the missing frontpart is comming as a loose part, and the eBay seller didn't bother to put it on? It's maybe not possible to use it on the layout, rather only in the collector's case? regards Björn H
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steventrain		#3 Posted : 31 May 2010 00:14:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,610 Location: United Kingdom		It is a error in the Marklin picture database. All 39192 in shop don't came with it
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Webmaster		#4 Posted : 31 May 2010 00:25:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		With the old 3769, the full skirts are retrofit parts that come in a separate bag - and are meant to be used for display case setup only.
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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dragos		#5 Posted : 31 May 2010 00:45:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 40 Location: Sweden		My dealer has the 39191 on the shelf, and i take it, its the same loco, but in DB livery. I shall ask if I may have a look inside the box and see if the front skirts comes as a loose part. But in the picture of 39191 in Märklins database, the skirt is missing.
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H0		#6 Posted : 31 May 2010 00:52:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		The skirts were removed in 1942. So it's correct that era III versions don't have these skirts. 39192, according to catalogue showing the state of 1940, should have these skirts.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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dragos		#7 Posted : 31 May 2010 22:48:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 40 Location: Sweden		I have just visit my local dealer, and he had just received the 39192. We looked inside the box, and I can confirm there is no front skirt, even not as an optional loose part. It's exactly the same loco as 39191. And on the box end, the picture shows the loco with the front skirts, just like in Märklins data base.
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DasBert33		#8 Posted : 31 May 2010 23:15:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,245		dragos wrote: I have just visit my local dealer, and he had just received the 39192. We looked inside the box, and I can confirm there is no front skirt, even not as an optional loose part. It's exactly the same loco as 39191. And on the box end, the picture shows the loco with the front skirts, just like in Märklins data base. Thanks for the confirmation! Definately another screwup. My old 3769 has indeed special full display case skirts, but it can run with the type of skirts in the catalogue, as does my E18. Bert
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David Dewar		#9 Posted : 01 June 2010 00:15:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,345 Location: Scotland		Appears to be quite a few mistakes in catalogue pics etc. these days. Shame that Marklin does not seem to be able to take time and ensure that they get things right. dave
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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steventrain		#10 Posted : 01 June 2010 16:31:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,610 Location: United Kingdom		DasBert33 wrote: Hi all, How it should look: It look same as 3769 with possible computer make up?
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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H0		#11 Posted : 10 June 2010 01:03:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		A post on Stummi's Forum says that the missing front skirts are a flaw of the first batch. They'll fix it for locos already rolled out. All is well that end's well ... ... but Mother M* could save some money if they'd get it right at first.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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TimR		#12 Posted : 10 June 2010 02:30:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		That was yet another embarrassing mistake.. If M* would fix this in the second batch, are they saying when they're actually shipping this second batch? What are they going to do with the first batch that are still sitting in the dealer's shelves? I would suspect that as usual, Marklin strategy in this case would be to play it quiet. If the prospective customer doesn't know about the mistake, then see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil. Hence why those of us who rely on mail order are well advised to wait until proper pictures and/or reviews of a new model is published to avoid unsuspected disappointments..
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Armando		#13 Posted : 23 June 2010 17:06:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,352 Location: Houston, Texas		Has anyone already received one of the locos from the second batch? Was the problem really corrected?
		Best regards, Armando García
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steventrain		#14 Posted : 23 June 2010 23:08:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,610 Location: United Kingdom		Armando wrote: Has anyone already received one of the locos from the second batch? Was the problem really corrected? Second batch not yet delivery until green light on database.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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steventrain		#15 Posted : 11 August 2010 18:32:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,610 Location: United Kingdom		The second batch now out with front cover. Check dealers before buy one.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Davy		#16 Posted : 12 August 2010 01:33:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		steventrain wrote: The second batch now out with front cover. Check dealers before buy one. If marklin is forgetten this part dealers must get these part from Marklin.
		M-track with a CS2.
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Armando		#17 Posted : 12 January 2011 19:21:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,352 Location: Houston, Texas		Hi everyone, Could anyone who already owns this locomotive (including the leftout front cover) please post a picture of the end product? How does it compare with its predecessor, 3769?
		Best regards, Armando García
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Ranjit		#18 Posted : 13 January 2011 01:22:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 3,009 Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA		Hi All, Here is some historical information of the #3769 and #39192 with pictures (with and without skirts). http://www.modellbahn.com/3769.html Cheers, Ranjit
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river6109		#19 Posted : 13 January 2011 01:36:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,730 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Hi All, sligthy off topic I actually fixed my front skirt firmly onto the loco frame, though loosing the front coupler (connection) John
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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SNAFU		#20 Posted : 14 January 2011 00:35:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 279 Location: Naracoorte, South Austrlia		I got mine last July/August and it came with the front cover. I hope the picture worked. I ve follewed the instructions.
		Tony Curiosity hasn't killed this cat yet.
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nevw		#21 Posted : 14 January 2011 00:58:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		It will come out now. there were spaces between jpg and [/img] NN Originally Posted by: SNAFU I got mine last July/August and it came with the front cover. I hope the picture worked. I ve follewed the instructions.
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Armando		#22 Posted : 14 January 2011 03:14:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,352 Location: Houston, Texas		Thanks for the pics. So, the front cover on the 3769 is red and on the 39192 is black??
		Best regards, Armando García
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H0		#23 Posted : 14 January 2011 07:33:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Armando So, the front cover on the 3769 is red and on the 39192 is black?? Yes, front skirt and sand boxes are black on the new 39192 - and this is prototypically correct for era II AFAIK. They were red on 3769 (which AFAIK was correct in era II only for "BR 19.0" but not for "BR 19.1"). E 19 12 in the museum has red skirts and sandboxes (blame the museum, not M*).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Armando		#24 Posted : 14 January 2011 20:03:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,352 Location: Houston, Texas		Originally Posted by: H0 Yes, front skirt and sand boxes are black on the new 39192 - and this is prototypically correct for era II AFAIK. They were red on 3769 (which AFAIK was correct in era II only for "BR 19.0" but not for "BR 19.1"). E 19 12 in the museum has red skirts and sandboxes (blame the museum, not M*). Exactly, the one at the Techisches Museum in Berlin does have red skirts and sandboxes. Well, maybe the 3969 was intended to be a "Museum Historical Locomotive", and Märklin never said it would be.
		Best regards, Armando García
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SNAFU		#25 Posted : 15 January 2011 00:19:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 279 Location: Naracoorte, South Austrlia		Originally Posted by: nevw It will come out now. there were spaces between jpg and [/img] NN Thanks Nev I appreciate the help.
		Tony Curiosity hasn't killed this cat yet.
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Oscar		#26 Posted : 15 January 2011 19:42:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC) Posts: 783 Location: ,		As much as I love Märklin, and the E19, I just cannot get myself to buy models that are adorned with symbols from national socialism.
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H0		#27 Posted : 15 January 2011 19:58:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Oscar As much as I love Märklin, and the E19, I just cannot get myself to buy models that are adorned with symbols from national socialism. The Märklin models come without swastika. If you don't want the eagle either, then go for green or blue versions from era III/IV.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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camcath		#28 Posted : 01 March 2014 01:17:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/06/2013(UTC) Posts: 153 Location: Victoria		Hi Have just purchased a 39192 on e-bay, am fairly sure it is without the skirting. Has anyone had experience of buying the part directly from marklin? Tried to find the part number without luck. Thanks
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H0		#29 Posted : 01 March 2014 08:56:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		Hi! Originally Posted by: camcath Have just purchased a 39192 on e-bay, am fairly sure it is without the skirting. [...] Tried to find the part number without luck. After looking at the explosion diagram, I think the part number is 274 670. You can order a bag of 10 from Märklin (ref. number E274 670) for €15. They have it in stock. Maybe someone here can confirm the part number. Otherwise the Märklin service normally helps quickly when you write them about the part number.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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H0		#30 Posted : 01 March 2014 09:01:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Oscar As much as I love Märklin, and the E19, I just cannot get myself to buy models that are adorned with symbols from national socialism. Somewhat off topic and I know I'm replying to a post that is three years old ... ... but a 2014 new Fleischmann item is the E 19 in red, era III and without "Pleitegeier" (vulture). The AC version has ref. number 391903 (click me). (They raised only one pantograph on the photo, but for normal operation both would be raised.)
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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RayF		#31 Posted : 01 March 2014 11:59:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Oscar As much as I love Märklin, and the E19, I just cannot get myself to buy models that are adorned with symbols from national socialism. Somewhat off topic and I know I'm replying to a post that is three years old ... ... but a 2014 new Fleischmann item is the E 19 in red, era III and without "Pleitegeier" (vulture). The AC version has ref. number 391903 (click me). (They raised only one pantograph on the photo, but for normal operation both would be raised.) Very attractive model! Is the red colour correct for Era III? I've only ever seen DB models of the E19 in blue, and of the E18 in blue, green and turquoise and cream.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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NZMarklinist		#32 Posted : 01 March 2014 13:24:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		I only just came accross this thread and had to check my example that I ordered as a new item from Lokshop in 2010. It does in fact have the skirts , and they are black, and are part of the coupler bar, so move with the front truck. Their part number from my Handbook is; 274670 Kupplungsdeichsel. Another interesting detail is the number "32" stamped on the buffer socket in yellow I love the model for it's SDS but the side wheel bearing, springs etc are represented by a clip on plastic moulding that hangs below the side of the body, and tends to colide with platforms etc . A feature that doesn't excite me enough to want to collect all the E18 & 19s, but I would be tempted by a reasonably priced 39191 The Swastika's are not evident at all as on the 3769 model, altho it has a smuggy illusion of them as I've seen on a freind's example, but the eagles are there and represent the ERA !(II) On the Red E19.12 at the DB Museum in Nurnberg the Swastikas are covered rather crudely, but apropriately, with a wooden diagonal cross so they have not been destroyed but have a screw hole in them See pics:- NZMarklinist attached the following image(s):
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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camcath		#33 Posted : 01 March 2014 14:00:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/06/2013(UTC) Posts: 153 Location: Victoria		Hi Tom and Glen I had thought 274670 also but this seems to be a coupler pocket but not the skirting front cover: http://www.ebay.co.uk/it...me-NEUWARE-/380845240448 I've emailed Maerklin so hope they get back to me. Cameron
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H0		#34 Posted : 02 March 2014 09:19:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		Hi, Cameron! Originally Posted by: camcath I had thought 274670 also but this seems to be a coupler pocket but not the skirting front cover Good point. The part you need is coupler pocket and front skirt in one piece. Since Märklin give the number 274670 for both 39191 and 39192 (and several others) this probably is the coupler pocket without skirt (correct for 39191, incorrect for 39192). Sometimes there are errors in the explosion diagrams - and it cannot harm to double-check any information. So let's wait which part number the Märklin Service will tell you.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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hgk		#35 Posted : 02 March 2014 21:50:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 455 Location: Pacific Ocean		Any reason why they didn't bring the sides of the skirt up to meet the body as I don't see that big gap in the original?
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H0		#36 Posted : 03 March 2014 09:27:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,271 Location: DE-NW		It was easy to avoid the gap with the prototype: the skirt was mounted to the main frame. With the model, there probably was only one choice: to mount the skirt to the coupler pocket. Skirt is moving left and right with the coupler pocket and there is a gap above it. That's the price of this simple solution. One could make a more complicated solution by mounting the skirt into the frame in a way that allows it to move left and right - no gap, but if it does not move freely, the train will derail. Sometimes it's good to keep it simple.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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RayF		#37 Posted : 03 March 2014 12:18:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		I believe the original 3769 brought a part to close the gap between the body and the skirt, did it not? This part could be added for display models, but needed to be removed to allow running on model curves. RayF attached the following image(s):
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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camcath		#38 Posted : 07 March 2014 07:20:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/06/2013(UTC) Posts: 153 Location: Victoria		Hi Tom Heard from Marklin, apparently spare part number I need is 153444, so will be interesting to see what I actually receive. Have to say though, I received the engine this week, and it has lived up to expectations. Cameron
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