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Offline DamonKelly  
#1 Posted : 22 February 2007 13:12:36(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,423
Location: Brisbane, QLD
I've pretty much settled on a V-60 type small diesel loco for shunting duties.
See my previous post on this matter

My choices are pragmatic:

my local dealer has a 37652 in stock:
BR 362 (ex.V 60) Diesel, Era V, fx decoder, 5-pole motor, metal body, two rubber tyres

New releases 2007 has 37655:
BR V 60 Diesel, Era III, mfx, 5-pole motor, metal body, 1 tyre

Now, mfx is kinda neat -- I do like the automatic registration, but 37652 is in the MS database. One thing I do like about the mfx decoders is the 128 speed steps -- much smoother. For a shunting engine, how important is this in practice?
Also, only one tyre on a shunting engine?

I prefer the look of the Era V 37652.

So, I can get the 37652 now, but I assume only 14 or 28 speed steps, or wait for the 37655, with mfx, but only one tyre.

Any advice?

Cheers,
Damon
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 22 February 2007 13:24:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,467
Location: DE-NW
My 37652 has a 60901 decoder that supports 27 speed steps.
Some locos come with a different decoder; I think it's a PIC decoder with only 14 speed steps (at least for CU and IB users).
I can recommend the version with DIP switches.
If it's the version without DIP switch, have a testrun at your dealer.
Don't know if there even are mfx versions of this loco.

The new 37655 has new light effects (lights on at both sides).

I prefer the look of Era III 37655 ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline pa-pauls  
#3 Posted : 22 February 2007 13:51:38(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,843
Location: Norway
Hi

The new model 37655 also have metal body,,,
My "old" model 37650 (looks like 37655) has plastic body,,,

Pål Paulsen
Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
Offline klinge-germany  
#4 Posted : 22 February 2007 15:09:19(UTC)
klinge-germany


Joined: 15/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 260
Location: Hamburg,
i think the new 37655 will have two tyres on one axle,having only one makes no sense in any case. if your other material is era V i would prefer 37652 whether it has 14,27 or whatever speedsteps. if you insist on correct lightning for a german shunting device (but only while shunting !!!!) you should prefer 37655. but, if it is the same body than the 37650 (former MHI version of the V60) the antenna for mobile connection is incorrect.....so there are always things to amend... what i would like : free choice of lights on the machine (double 'A', simple 'A' other end dark or simple 'A' and on the other end two reds) which would cover all possible situations (shunting, pulling a train from A to B, and 'LZ' ride (single ride from A to B).
have fun with your MRR
Alfred
P.S. i ordered a 37655 at a very favourable price (148,60 EURO)
alfred...with M since 1960...layout under construction (in mind...)
collecting M items - but not a collector...
editing posts only for tyops...uppps...typos
Offline DamonKelly  
#5 Posted : 22 February 2007 16:00:34(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,423
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Does anyone have experience with the 6090x decoders (in the 37652, I assume) with shunting?

I'm not (very) interested in "new light effects" in this instance, but I do want nice "drivability", since I expect this loco to live its life in the shunting yard (i.e. under the theoretical Kelly layout, in the switch-yard)!!!

I repeat the question:
In a shunting application, is there an advantage in the mfx 128 speed steps over the older fx 27 speed steps?
In general: is mfx an advantage over fx in this application?
Cheers,
Damon
Offline Hemmerich  
#6 Posted : 22 February 2007 16:42:46(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Yes, Damon!

The 128 speed steps will give you (obviously) more granularity.

Other advantages are as well related to the different decoder type:

- exponential vs. linear speed curve
- much broader adjustment range for Vmax and the delays.
- shunting speed capability (reduction of speed by about 50%)!
- shunting light, which really is just a side benefit of the new function mapping capability.

Today I'd even recommend to replace the existing (c91)decoder with a mfx type in such a model.

About 1 vs. 2 tires: There exist already a number of models with just 1 tyre; one of the latest additions was/is the VT98 Schienenbus. It makes sense with such models that have a 2nd pendular axle, whereas the one with tyre is fix. Benefit is a higher rail contact assurance; especially for such "short" models/models with only two axles.
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 22 February 2007 18:47:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,467
Location: DE-NW
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DamonKelly
<br />Does anyone have experience with the 6090x decoders (in the 37652, I assume) with shunting?

The loco can go pretty slow, so you can deliver freight cars exactly at the location where you want them.
You need some momentum to hook up cars - so that's not really prototypical, neither with mfx nor with any other decoder.
37562 doesn't work good with close couplers; Relex couplers work better.

The telex couplers found on class 44/50 steamers work better with close couplers. These locos did some shunting at small stations, too.

Locos with PIC decoders have 14 speed steps only. I think VMin is not adjustable and some go pretty fast at speed step 1 (I have two Bo'Bo' electrics with this decoder; a V60 probably is slower so this might be OK, too).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline soren36  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2007 21:22:47(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
The catalog says the telex couplers on 37655 can be controlled via 6021 or M* Systems. Does that mean they cannot be controlled from a MS? If not, can they be activated by an old-fashioned uncoupler track?
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline Fredrik  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2007 21:39:52(UTC)
Fredrik

Sweden   
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 642
MS = M* Systems so it's possible and normally the telex is on a reachable function.
Fredrik.
*ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...)
WWW: MJ-fjärren
Offline Roger E  
#10 Posted : 23 February 2007 00:36:05(UTC)
Roger E


Joined: 23/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: Asker, Norway
The 37655 V 60 will also be available for DC as Trix T22133, but then apparently without any traction tires. Will it have decent pulling power even without traction tires?
Offline rugauger  
#11 Posted : 23 February 2007 00:49:25(UTC)
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Roger E
<br />The 37655 V 60 will also be available for DC as Trix T22133, but then apparently without any traction tires. Will it have decent pulling power even without traction tires?
DC cars tend to be lighter, so I'd say yes, if you are using it as intended (with DC rolling stock, that is [;) ). On a Marklin loco, I'd always want at least one traction tyre.]
Richard
Offline soren36  
#12 Posted : 23 February 2007 02:27:57(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by fredsaf
<br />MS = M* Systems so it's possible and normally the telex is on a reachable function.


MS (Mobile Station) is often mentioned in addition to Marklin Systems. They are not always synonymous, and in any case, there are fewer functions available on the Mobile Station. Is one of the funtions in 37655 that are displayed on a stand-alone 6052 Mobile Station (no CS) "uncouple"?
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline soren36  
#13 Posted : 23 February 2007 03:11:31(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
RE: Mobile Station control of Telex couplers on 37655 - found a specific answer on a dealer site.

6021, 60652 (MS), and 60212 (CS) / all can control the headlight, the switching lights, Telex front and Telex rear. I just ordered oneSmile
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline nevw  
#14 Posted : 23 February 2007 04:20:01(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by soren36
<br />RE: Mobile Station control of Telex couplers on 37655 - found a specific answer on a dealer site.

6021, 60652 (MS), and 60212 (CS) / all can control the headlight, the switching lights, Telex front and Telex rear. I just ordered oneSmile

MS can definately control Smoke, Lights, Wheel Lights, sound telex, Shunting speed,
I have a DB03 and can control all of that on the MS
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline efel  
#15 Posted : 23 February 2007 09:41:13(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 801
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DamonKelly
<br />Also, only one tyre on a shunting engine?


I had a 3665 with only one traction tyre: it was able to pull a maximum of one car. With 2 cars and more, the wheels slip, mainly on turn outs. I then bought a second hand 3065 with 2 traction tyres, upgraded with a 5 poles motor: works like a charm.
Then I definitely avoid the one traction tyre loco.

Fred
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#16 Posted : 23 February 2007 11:18:02(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DamonKelly
<br />Does anyone have experience with the 6090x decoders (in the 37652, I assume) with shunting?

I'm not (very) interested in "new light effects" in this instance, but I do want nice "drivability", since I expect this loco to live its life in the shunting yard (i.e. under the theoretical Kelly layout, in the switch-yard)!!!

I repeat the question:
In a shunting application, is there an advantage in the mfx 128 speed steps over the older fx 27 speed steps?
In general: is mfx an advantage over fx in this application?


As long as you are using the Mobile Station there will only be 27 speedsteps available anyway on the control knob. But the decoder climbs through the speed steps during acceleration and braking, so you may get a smoother driving experience from the mfx version anyway.

Most shunting locos are quite well adapted for driving slowly, since the top speed is limited. So usually you don't need all of those 128 speedsteps. If the decoder in the 37652 is a c90 you will have the same performance as an mfx decoder.

One traction tyre is probably enough when the loco has a metal body. If you have more traction tyres, the power pickup from the rails will suffer, so it's always a compromise...
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline intruder  
#17 Posted : 23 February 2007 16:58:24(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I agree with Karl

The V60 had a maximum speed of 60 km/h. When setting the scale speed to that level, the 14/27 available speed steps are in my opinion more than enough.

If you use 128 steps at that low max. speed, you have to turn the speed dial like cracy to change the loco speed. I set the speed to the correct level, using my 49960 or th new "radar device" (don't remember the M#) and the acc/brake delay to 10 seconds. Then even the 14/27 steps runs smoothly.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Frostie  
#18 Posted : 24 February 2007 00:29:05(UTC)
Frostie

United States   
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,614
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
I like my 37652, it will actually pull more than I expect. I tried with my disital torpedo wagon and it runs well, not much wheel slipping.
Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup"
CS/MS Digital Era 1/2
Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010.
Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.

Offline DamonKelly  
#19 Posted : 04 March 2007 15:10:17(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,423
Location: Brisbane, QLD
I had a test drive of the 37652 (BR 362 Diesel, Era V, fx decoder, 5-pole motor, metal body, two rubber tyres) at my local shop, and I was quite impressed with the smoothness and pulling power. I used a 6021 controller (or something old school like that wink), so performance with the MS remains to be be tested, but I'm sure it will be fine.

In fact, I went ahead and bought it yesterday biggrinbiggrinbiggrin. I decided I can fit an mfx decoder easily enough if I am unhappy with the speed steps.

I haven't played with it yet [:(][:(], but everyone at the Kelly Family monthly chow-down/piss-up was suitably impressed -- my brother-in-law (him with the ancient Hornby UFO train set) commented how heavy and solid it felt for a small loco, and my younger niece immediately demanded to be shown how to use the Telex couplings the next time she visits here biggrin

I take it that the Telex decouplers are not common in non-Märklin locos (at least, I've never heard of a non-Märklin loco with remotely controlled couplers)
Cheers,
Damon
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#20 Posted : 04 March 2007 15:20:42(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Roco does have a few models with remotely controlled couplers, but AFAIK they are the only one (except for Märklin) supplying models in H0 equipped with these couplers.
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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