 Joined: 23/04/2007(UTC) Posts: 24 Location: ,
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Has anyone had experience with using these signals with Intellibox? So far I am finding no problem with Intellibox working all decoders which employ dip switches but these newer signals communicate eratically. Each time I turn on the system some signals work and then next time others work but not always the ones that worked before. The address codes are ok and consistent and when the signals work they work well. Something is missing somewhere and any help from the forum would be much appreciated. Have tried various power arrangements ie direct from Intellibox and thru separate transformer and  booster (both 6015 and 6017); on all 6017 have all dip switches off Cheers Adrian1
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 Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,692 Location: United Kingdom
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I have 13 763xx did working well with 6021+6040 or Central station.
The 763xx can programmes coding with 6021 or CS. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 23/04/2007(UTC) Posts: 24 Location: ,
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Yes mine worked fine with 6021 and boosters and pc but 6021 died and I am attempting to use Intellibox with software update 1.5
Thanks
Adrian1
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,594 Location: Australia
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The digital signals work (or worked) with my IB on a 6017 boosted network and versions 8.4, 9.0 and 9.2 of WindigiPET.. I have had two of the signal boards fail on me - one was replaced under warranty while the other failed a couple of weeks ago..
All my signals are fed off the same booster.. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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I have one 76xxx signal, and won't buy more. Viessmann signals IMHO are superior in all aspects. Märklin is very good at tracks and rolling stock, but not more. :-(
/lw
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 Joined: 05/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 123 Location: Brooklyn NY
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Hi Adrian i got one question are those marklin signals work by it self or you need a digital decorder or a switch to work with it . |
MaRkLiN rules |
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,594 Location: Australia
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The decoder is in the head of the signal (or at least the address part of the decoder) and the intelligence to switch is in a separate board that is included with the signal.. These signals can be use as analogue devices, but I feel that they are too expensive for that role. |
AdrianAustralia flag by abFlags.com |
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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Yes,
the signal mast and the board is a unit that should not be separated. The board has a built in decoder, and also analog inputs, so it may be used either way. An external decoder can be used if the signal is operated "analog", but makes no sense. And the unit is to expensive regardless if you run it in analog or digital IMHO.
/lw
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Joined: 29/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: NRW, Germany
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Hi Adrian,
Mrkl signals 763##: there were two versions sold: v1 which will work only with CU sending Motorola protocol and those new ones (sold since one year or so) v2 which are able to work under multiprotol condition: Motorola old & new and MFX.
v2 signals have at least a red label on their box "2.0". It can happen that the IB is sending DCC and Motorola signals, which will lead to the troubles you described. There are two ways to solve this problem:
1) tell the IB to send only Motorola protocol to the tracks (SO 25 and SO 901) and avoid calling a DCC-protocol-definded loco (identical settings when programming a MFX-loco using the IB).
2) use a Motorola-only booster to control those signals (Delta 4f, Mrkl6017 with special settings in the IB (SO 903 ?? or 906 ?? I'm not sure at this moment, but the correct connection of the 6017 to the IB is described in Uhlenbrocks manual, which can be obtained in English from their site).
I have several of these signals working properly with the IB, even when DCC is on the tracks: they are all v2.0. Might be that v1.0 signals are cheaper to get at ebay or elsewhere, so I recommend to buy them at the dealer and have a look on the package before buying them!
Hope this helps a little bit.
Mafi |
Don't be too proud of the new high tech terror you just have invented! (Darth Vader, Episode IV) |
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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AFAIK Märklin updates the software in the v1 version of the signals; at least they did. DCC signal (and mfx) may lock the signal up as well I think, so they don't work any more. Mine needed an update.
/Lars
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Joined: 23/04/2007(UTC) Posts: 24 Location: ,
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Dear Mafi,
Brilliant!!! The signals all work now. I had to remind two of them that they were Motorola but all the rest came on line as soon as I set the second special option you suggested. Thank you so much for your input.
Cheers
Adrian
Mrkl signals 763##: there were two versions sold: v1 which will work only with CU sending Motorola protocol and those new ones (sold since one year or so) v2 which are able to work under multiprotol condition: Motorola old & new and MFX.
v2 signals have at least a red label on their box "2.0". It can happen that the IB is sending DCC and Motorola signals, which will lead to the troubles you described. There are two ways to solve this problem:
1) tell the IB to send only Motorola protocol to the tracks (SO 25 and SO 901) and avoid calling a DCC-protocol-definded loco (identical settings when programming a MFX-loco using the IB).
2) use a Motorola-only booster to control those signals (Delta 4f, Mrkl6017 with special settings in the IB (SO 903 ?? or 906 ?? I'm not sure at this moment, but the correct connection of the 6017 to the IB is described in Uhlenbrocks manual, which can be obtained in English from their site).
I have several of these signals working properly with the IB, even when DCC is on the tracks: they are all v2.0. Might be that v1.0 signals are cheaper to get at ebay or elsewhere, so I recommend to buy them at the dealer and have a look on the package before buying them!
Hope this helps a little bit.
Mafi
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Joined: 23/04/2007(UTC) Posts: 24 Location: ,
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Thank you all who contributed to the IB and signal topic.
Cheers
Adrian
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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One detail: I don't understand what you mean by using Delta 4f; if you do, it is connected to the track output of IB, and transmits both Motorola signals and DCC signals equally well. I'm uncertain about the SO 903/905 settings too, but would guess that using a 6015/6017 woun't change things either. Could you explain in what way 2) is supposed to help things? 1) makes perfect sense too me, and also
3) use a 6020/6021 connected to the IB with it's own transformer.
/lw
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Joined: 29/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: NRW, Germany
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Hi Lars,
you are right with alternative 3).
At the moment I have 2 Delta 4f connected to my IB to work as boosters for the tracks. IB no longer connected to the tracks. It might be that I have set all the SO in the way to generate Motorolo protocol only, but I'm not sure if the Delta 4f can deliver the DCC signal to the tracks even when it is coming from the IB... as far as I remember there was a report in another forum that the Delta 4f will block DCC signals, ... on the other hand there are reports that the Delta 4f can work as a MFX-booster ...and concerning the 6017: there is a SO in the IB which will this booster allow to receive and transmit DCC signals ...so it could be the same with the Delta 4f ...I will check it out and report later on.
Mafi |
Don't be too proud of the new high tech terror you just have invented! (Darth Vader, Episode IV) |
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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I have the same setup, but Delta standard instead.
The Delta are just stupid aplifiers, who don't understand the signal at all, AFAIK. It might be that Selectrix get problems (should have a 0-level), but DCC can't possibly get filtered. If so, it's because of distortion, not that it's filering purposely.
With the booster output of the IB it's possible for IBs software to do things, but I can't imagine it has been implemented anything such.
The 6020/6021 (alternative 3) isn't really a "booster" setup; the 6020/21 think they get commands from an 6050 interface and produces it's own Motorola signal. I think the SOs in IB can be set so that not all commands are transferred at the I2C-bus. I vaguely recall SO-settings about DCC as booster; but don't know exactly what they do. But I think one thing is that they help boosters work when they get a pure DCC signal, as they else think there is a shortcut or something reported. Same problem as Märklin address by saying that when running mfx only locos at CS with connected boosters, you should enter a ghost address as well. Still fuzzy memory.
It really strikes me, that if Märklin had produced multiprotocol equipment from the beginning, they would have saved lots of money. Both the 76xxx signals and the 6015/6017 fail when they get the mfx-signal under some circumstances.
/Lars
Regards,
Lars
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Joined: 29/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: NRW, Germany
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Hello Lars,
you are right and me was wrong: the Delta 4f is transmitting DCC signals too, just tested it. No matter how the SO are set, the IB is sending DCC signals to the tracks when a DCC-protocol loco is called. The Delta 4fs used as bossters are sending then the DCC signal to the tracks too.
To Adrian:
to keep your signals working with the IB, you must ensure not to call a DCC-protocol loco aside from setting the SO mentioned above, too.
And Lars alternative 3) is a good one to ensure to have Motorola-only at the line to the signals.
Another option is to try to get the older signals replaced/reworked by Märklin themselve.
Cheers and good luck
Mafi |
Don't be too proud of the new high tech terror you just have invented! (Darth Vader, Episode IV) |
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Joined: 23/04/2007(UTC) Posts: 24 Location: ,
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Hello Mafi,
I only have Marklin locos (and enough!)so I assume I have no DCC protocols. Is that a safe bet? Secondly I run Windigital and am getting a few "time outs". Do you know or think this is just a few confusing messages in my routings and feedbacks etc?
Cheers
Adrian
"To Adrian:
to keep your signals working with the IB, you must ensure not to call a DCC-protocol loco aside from setting the SO mentioned above, too."
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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Hello Adrian,
for the time beeing, it's OK. But you'll probably get problems with your signals when/if you should begin transmit mfx in future. Could happen if the IB gets an update (does not exist today) with mfx. My hint is to try get the signals updated.
/Lars
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