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Offline MartinB  
#1 Posted : 13 November 2006 23:25:14(UTC)
MartinB


Joined: 05/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 326
Location: ,
I am currently buidling the controldesk and I have some trouble with a particular K-track switch motor. The switch can be trown back and forth a few times without problem before it gets "stuck". The switch motor is not strong enough to thro the switch back.

Any suggestions?

Best regards MartinB

Märklin Systems
K-track and C-track
Deutsche Bundesbahn Ep.3
Offline hxmiesa  
#2 Posted : 13 November 2006 23:44:58(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Mechanical; Check for debris between any moveable parts. Is any part damaged or bend?
Electrical; One (or two) of the coils may have burnt. Your trafo may be giving less than needed.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Rowan  
#3 Posted : 14 November 2006 04:58:31(UTC)
Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Yeah mate ,as Henrick said check the operation of the moving parts.
Use a fine screw driver to move it manualy.Does it feel free? Need a clean? A drop of lubrication?
Is the solenoid hotter then normal after a couple of tries?

Offline al_pignolo  
#4 Posted : 15 November 2006 18:58:07(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
If you installed the motor below the baseboard (kit #7549) check the small inge that moves the tongues: it often flexes without throwing the switch ([:(]).
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2006 21:01:53(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Is is below baseboard? if so, give up, they are nothing but trouble. I have a number of turnouts mounted that way and one of my next tasks is to redo them and mount the switch motor upside down and above the baseboard. The underside of the motor which is now uppermost can be landscaped to blend it into the trackside landscape. The silly wire pin mechanism of the below baseboard mounts is hopelessly under-designed.

I also have a tip for moving the switch manually if you are unable to get to the switch from below..
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/Switch_motor_thread

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline hmsfix  
#6 Posted : 19 November 2006 23:07:53(UTC)
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi Martin,

I wonder whether your turnout problem comes from the turnout motor or from the mechanism in the turnout.

You could perhaps check that by inserting another turmout motor to the respective turnout, or you could insert the turnout motor in question in another turnout.

Some time ago I've had very strange difficulties with a K turnout, too. I first suspected the 7549 turnout motor not working correctly. However, the true origin of the problem was a bent tie under the turnout tongue.

Hans Martin
Offline MartinB  
#7 Posted : 19 November 2006 23:19:20(UTC)
MartinB


Joined: 05/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 326
Location: ,
Thanks for all replies Smile

I have been ill since tuesday and have not been able to work on the layout. I hope to investigate the problem further during next week. I'll let you know how things work out.

Best regards MartinB

Märklin Systems
K-track and C-track
Deutsche Bundesbahn Ep.3
Offline hxmiesa  
#8 Posted : 20 November 2006 20:22:55(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DaleSchultz
I also have a tip for moving the switch manually if you are unable to get to the switch from below..
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/Switch_motor_thread


Good idea!
I´m not sure I can use it (need it) myself, but I very much like the "out of the box" thinkin for that solution...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline MartinB  
#9 Posted : 24 November 2006 00:10:44(UTC)
MartinB


Joined: 05/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 326
Location: ,
Hi all,

this evening I investigated the problem further. The turnout is placed just inside the tunell, so I had to gently remove the entrance in order to access the turnout. I first vacumed the turnout without any improvement. I removed the solenoid and tried to move the tongues back and forth. Even if it is a brand new turnout they kept moving back when I moved them in one direction. After lubricating all moving parts the situation improved drastically, and now the turnout works just fine Smile

Best regards MartinB

Märklin Systems
K-track and C-track
Deutsche Bundesbahn Ep.3
Offline steink  
#10 Posted : 24 November 2006 17:46:42(UTC)
steink


Joined: 19/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Vikeså,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MartinB
<br />Hi all,

this evening I investigated the problem further. The turnout is placed just inside the tunell, so I had to gently remove the entrance in order to access the turnout. I first vacumed the turnout without any improvement. I removed the solenoid and tried to move the tongues back and forth. Even if it is a brand new turnout they kept moving back when I moved them in one direction. After lubricating all moving parts the situation improved drastically, and now the turnout works just fine Smile




What sot of lubritation du you use?
Offline MartinB  
#11 Posted : 24 November 2006 19:30:02(UTC)
MartinB


Joined: 05/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 326
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steink
What sot of lubritation du you use?


Hi Stein,

I thought about using silicone spray or 5-56, but ended up using Märklin oil. Time will show if it was a wisw choice [:I]

Best regards MartinB

Märklin Systems
K-track and C-track
Deutsche Bundesbahn Ep.3
Offline al_pignolo  
#12 Posted : 26 November 2006 00:21:11(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DaleSchultz
<br />Is is below baseboard? if so, give up, they are nothing but trouble. I have a number of turnouts mounted that way and one of my next tasks is to redo them and mount the switch motor upside down and above the baseboard. The underside of the motor which is now uppermost can be landscaped to blend it into the trackside landscape. The silly wire pin mechanism of the below baseboard mounts is hopelessly under-designed.

I also have a tip for moving the switch manually if you are unable to get to the switch from below..
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/Switch_motor_thread




I totally agree with you. The below baseboard mounting kit works very badly! I was thinking about replacing it with tortoise motors. Someone has tried them?

Regards,
Pietro
Offline rschaffr  
#13 Posted : 26 November 2006 05:14:43(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Yes. They work great. I buy the Marklin underboard mounting kit and throw most of the parts away. I attach the above board parts (the little tab that clips into the switch mechanism and the box that covers the mechanism) and run the Tortoise up through the hole. Works great. Top reliability, but they are a bit noisy. They also take up a lot space underboard, so if you have a passing track below the switch you can't use them.

You do realize that you need to drive them with a constant on device such as a k84 or equivalent, not a momentary power like the k83. You also have to build a rectifier bridge since the motor is DC.

I bought another brand motor which is smaller and sounds more quiet on the test bench, but have not as yet had a chance to install it. Maybe next week. I don't recall the manufacturer and am not at home right now. I will post it when I get home.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline jte  
#14 Posted : 26 November 2006 11:15:35(UTC)
jte


Joined: 30/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 117
Location: ,

UserPostedImage

The problem with Märklin undertable kit is the too thin wire. I did build my own turnout motors of cheap tin can motors. Manual operation is easy with mom-off-mom switches (DC), but points decoders need additional relays (á 2,-€).
So far they have been functioning trouble free (4 years now).

More info on my homepage.
Offline al_pignolo  
#15 Posted : 26 November 2006 13:48:54(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
Thank you all for the good tips... Smile Smile Smile
rschaffr: good suggestion to keep the above parts. I know I should give to this motor continuous DC power; I think that a relay could be a good solution.
jte: your idea is GREAT [:p]! I will look at your homepage and try to build one of them!
Offline al_pignolo  
#16 Posted : 11 December 2006 22:29:15(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
In these days I had another idea about motors: has someone tried the servos used in airplane models? They are similar to tortoises and are muche cheaper!
Offline rschaffr  
#17 Posted : 11 December 2006 22:55:31(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Not a bad idea. Also quieter. I'll have to look into that. I have a few placed I'd like to put a Tortoise, but I don't have underboard clearance. That would solve the problem.

BTW, I installed that other type motor (can't recall the name right now) and I don't like it. It moves too fast, almost as fast as a solenoid switch. But it does ahve less "underhead" and where I used it a tortoise would not fit, so it stays.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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