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Offline bygger01  
#1 Posted : 26 April 2024 13:24:25(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 189
Location: Herning in Denmark
At some point, Märklin changed the programming on the CS3 of a two-drive crossover.


It has now become visible with only one address (the first one), while the next one is not directly visible.

For me with the LS150 decoder it causes more problems than joys, and it is difficult to determine if the one on the left - when you look at it - is the 1st or 2nd or the other address when correcting so that there is consistency between screen and reality.

If you turn the X-track 180 degrees it becomes really fun, but it is often the only way I can get the screen to fit for passengers who are not straight through.

Part of my solution process is to give the X track a new address and instead create 2 cross tracks at the 2 now available addresses and get the wires under control, and then move the X track back!


So my question is:

Did it come about programming when updating to 2.5.x?


If this is the case I will take courage and change back to 2.4.x

Edited by user 27 April 2024 11:25:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 26 April 2024 18:03:53(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,144
Location: Paris, France
Hi Joergen
I have a Märklin CS3 and also a CS2
Märklin has only one type of Double Slip Switch (DSS) with 2 separate motors. It is the K Track 2275 It has been around for DECADES (from 1980 until today.

So the chances Märklin changed the way it regroups both solenoids is minuscule ( inexistant?) I believe.

I believe it is all a matter of arranging the two motors and connecting each wire to your decoder and it MUST work.
The only thing Märklin imposes is that both motors MUST have consecutive addresses

I think some had difficulties using TC. I don't because I use Rocrail (and you may "invert" the action of a solenoid.

Cheers
Jean
Offline bygger01  
#3 Posted : 26 April 2024 19:31:40(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 189
Location: Herning in Denmark
It sounds easy when you describe it, but we'll do an example.

It should be pointed out that I work with Lenz LS150, and it doesn't make it any easier + also with another drive, as I am in the process of changing to MTB mp1 servo motors (now 75491 from 2012 has also started to break down)

We're talking about art. 2275 with 2 magnetic drives, and need to get that cross track into a CS3 with address 11 & 12

We now have to choose what the first drive should have!

I'm lefthanded so on the left it becomes #11 in box 3 and port 1 and then it becomes #12 in port 2

Ok is pressed and we now see a cross track with address 11.

We might be lucky that number #11 is the left drive, but we don't know!

It is tested whether straight in both directions on the screen fits with 2275, it does not happen by chance, and we now have to decide which drive the blue wires need to be replaced on.

Here I choose to remove the yellow wire on port 1, in order to determine on the 2275 whether it is the left or right drive that is moving.

With the help of this operation I get to exchange 2 blue wires and the two straight throughs are the same on scare and reality!

But then the two passes where there is a "deflected" pass are tried, and then suddenly we see on the screen that it is the top option that makes a deflected pass, but 2275 shows the opposite!

Here it has helped me several times to edit the track plan and rotates 2275 180 degrees, so now the left has become the right, etc.

And then it all starts again …………….

So that's why I'm asking if the update 2.5.x was the one that brought the change with only one visible address!

Another option is to change the 2275 to 2 derailleurs, which I used on my old CS2!
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 26 April 2024 21:22:55(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,144
Location: Paris, France

Hi Again

I don't want to impose my truth (just my opinion with the little I know and I may be wrong)
- the 2275 DSS cannot be all straight but rather all 4 blades (points) on one side (left for instance) are up or down (so one side is straight and the other is deviating)
- obviously, the exact same goes for the other half (right for instance) and motor of the DSS
- mixing the 2 motors or their connections is the same as a rotation of the DSS to 180°
- in digital operation (pulse duration is 100mS, 200 mS for bad units), shorting the end switches is a good operation towards safe & secure operation PROVIDED the decoder switches OFF the solenoids 100 or 200 mS after activation. This is NOT the case with older Märklin 6083 (rather use 60832). I don't know if this is also true with the decoder you are using.
- in the old days, the decoder would activate the solenoid as long as you push the button. Risk is if the decoder misses the switch-off order, the solenoid burns.

Sorry for the long speech to say it is really worth your while to short the end-position micro-switches only if your decoder guarantees that it will shut-off the solenoid motor after a few mS. Apparently the Lenz LS150 decoder may have its duration set from 0.1 Second to 10 Seconds so adjusting the duration to 0.1 S and shorting the microswitches on your solenoid motors will give you the best results

Back to the CS3 and the 2275 DSS: it proposes 4 positions:
- straight in one direction (on both motors green is activated)
- straight in the other direction (on both motors red is activated)
- turnout top (on one motor green is activated and red is on the other one)
- turnout bottom(on one motor red is activated and green is on the other one)

There is no way Märklin could have changed this while leaving the 2275 unchanged for 40 years.

I am not sure that a servo motor will bring you reliability. I use them a lot (Faller Car System, Crane, Tender coal level, etc) and they are very fragile.

Cheers
Jean

Offline bygger01  
#5 Posted : 26 April 2024 22:40:18(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 189
Location: Herning in Denmark
I will come back to morrow, but since 2018 no "magnet" coilers had melted !

I work with 0,2 sec.

But more than 45 micro swiichs, had stop working from one end !
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline bygger01  
#6 Posted : 26 April 2024 23:34:56(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 189
Location: Herning in Denmark
Sorry, but my whole story is just to find out, if the way a CS3 works with the update 2.5.x regarding cross track with two drives, is the same way with only one visible address as the previous version 2.4.x !
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 27 April 2024 12:13:14(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,144
Location: Paris, France
Hi
No, the CS3 way to process DSSs with 2 motors has not changed
Once again: many solenoid motor failures are related to the micro-switch inside (2 of them) which are failing (bad contact)
In digital, with modern decoders, they are useless so your failed motors can live again by strapping those useless microswitches.
Cheers
Jean
Offline bygger01  
#8 Posted : 27 April 2024 13:37:01(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 189
Location: Herning in Denmark
Purely physically, it has happened, that you cannot directly see on CS3 which drive has been given the first address!

If I have to be honest, I know it, because a diagram has been made with all 108 ports - what is associated with each port - where the magnet article is located, but it is not enough.

So it is either to follow the wire under the track to determine the drive, or remove the "yellow" wire on e.g. the first port and then see which drive is not moving.

My combination of a CS3 and LS150 means that every 2-3 week will have to change some blue wires because there is no connection between the screen and how a switch is positioned.

So that's why I'm looking back to the version where the 2 ports were visible, and here I hope that it would be 2.4.x, where Märklin has opened the possibility, that you can go backwards!

Another advantage would be that my 5 locomotives with ESU Loksound 5 would again function as MFX!

One can rightly suggest a change to 100% Märklin, so out with the 18 pcs. LS150 and replace them with more 27 pcs. m83.

Tried but gave up because I can't figure out how to get my motor drives MBT to work because they require a longer pulse.

So the 3 purchased m83 have been sold again!
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline bygger01  
#9 Posted : 27 April 2024 19:59:05(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 189
Location: Herning in Denmark
Dear Jean

I hope you don't find my answers too direct, but that has always been my "style" and I find it hard to express myself differently.

But I would like to say thank you for your posts, for expressing empathy and great knowledge!

Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
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