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Offline ccranium  
#1 Posted : 16 April 2024 17:52:21(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 87
Location: Seattle area
I just bought my first TELEX lok and it works great; what a cool way to shunt! I've coveted one of these for 50 years...

It doesn't like running at high speed/max voltage with my analog trafos (6627's) though, so the reverser spring needs some additional tension. The manual which came with the lok has an image showing to do it with a screwdriver in between the spring's coils, but that makes no sense to me (it's not possible to shorten a spring that way). I'm adept at adjusting the non-TELEX reversing spring hook on my other analog loks but the hook for this one appears to be more rigid; this one's a puzzler so I'd appreciate any suggestions from the group.
Thank you.
Brian

scan.jpg
Offline mountainroads  
#2 Posted : 19 April 2024 05:28:34(UTC)
mountainroads


Joined: 16/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, Seattle
Hi Brian:

I think the picture might be a little misleading. The principle is still the same - reduce spring tension if the loco "lurches" with reversal voltage, or increase spring tension if the solenoid engages prematurely. I suggest adjusting the solenoid arm attached to the spring with a screwdriver or needle nose pliers accordingly as you would with a standard reversal unit, instead of messing with the spring itself. Just my .02 based on past experience. Hope that helps.

Regards,

- MR

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Offline dickinsonj  
#3 Posted : 21 April 2024 00:49:14(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,709
Location: Crozet, Virginia
I agree about not stretching the spring, which is both imprecise and very difficult to undo if you go too far.

Bending the arm as suggested by Paul is a much better way to go.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 21 April 2024 17:31:13(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,231
Location: Paris, France
Hi Brian
In your case, the Telex relay is activated at a too low voltage.
This means the spring pulling power is not strong enough.
The notice you show is from a "stupidity" period from Märklin: once you bend the spring away you cannot go back but buy a new spring (no big deal, they are cheap).
Another approach is to cut the bent part away from your spring and fold away a new spring spire into the hook.

The two extremes to avoid are:
- a "boxsprung" a loco jerk when trying to change direction (Spring is too tight)
- a freeze of the loco at higher speeds (spring is too weak).

Advice: pardon me for this but these springs for direction relay (Umschalterfeder) are good to have for direction relays but also for points and many other things. So they are like sliders: always have a few spare units just in case
Cheers
Jean
Offline ccranium  
#5 Posted : 23 April 2024 04:10:12(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 87
Location: Seattle area
Thank you, MR, Jim & Jean.

I made time to look at it again. I need to increase the spring tension because the TELEX solenoid is operating at the high end of operating voltage. The challenge with this unit is the arm on the slider is shorter and much wider (1.7mm) than the arms on my other analog loks (like 3022/3034/3037). Those have a very small hook on a long but thin (1.1mm) arm and are easy to bend both ways. While access is also a challenge due it being underneath the circuit board, I was able to grab it while holding onto the end of the slider; it really isn't meant to bend like the 3022/34/34 RELEX versions.

3065 TELEX reverser.jpg

3022 RELEX Reverser.jpg

The length of the spring coils when removed and fully compressed is about 3mm, much shorter than the springs for my M-track points, so I don't think substituting one of my spares from points will work either. I found some 7194 spare springs on eBay (5 pack) and will see if a new one will do the trick. If not, I'll try cutting a coil or two out as Jean suggested; my first attempt at that with the existing spring didn't end well...Mad

Thanks again for your help and suggestions!
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Offline mountainroads  
#6 Posted : 23 April 2024 05:25:54(UTC)
mountainroads


Joined: 16/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, Seattle
Hi Brian:

Coincidentally, I needed to adjust the reverser spring tension on my 3047 (also Telex) today. I agree the slider arm is stiffer and harder to access than those on the locos using the (standard) Relex couplings.

That said, I was successfully able to adjust (reduce) the spring tension by carefully bending the arm using a screwdriver as leverage. I would still not recommend substituting or modifying the reverser spring unless you absolutely have no other choice.

Are you sure that the currently installed spring is correct?

- MR
Offline Paul59  
#7 Posted : 23 April 2024 09:30:29(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: South East
I've found the easiest way to increase the spring tension a little bit is to unhook one end of the spring and hook it on again one coil in from the end. It's a bit fiddly but works well and doesn't involve permanently bending or stretching anything.
If you need more tension than that then hook it on two coils from the end etc...
This is easiest done at the end that hooks onto the moving hook since this is a bit more pointy so easiest to get between the coils.

IMG_0645.jpg
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
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Offline ccranium  
#8 Posted : 23 April 2024 18:04:23(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 87
Location: Seattle area
MR and Paul,
Thank you. Yes, reducing the tension a little is easier because of the way the slider is at rest; the leverage force on the hook to reduce the tension is counteracted by the arm resting against the plastic guide (on the left side of Pauls' and my pics). It's harder to get leverage to bend the other way to increase tension because of the action of the slider; I don't want to risk damaging the frame or bending the slider if I'm too aggressive.

The spring is correct as far as I can tell; when unhooked, it's exactly the same length and diameter as the one from the RELEX 3022. Unfortunately the parts diagram and list from Mother M doesn't list it separately, but instead has the whole reverser unit (229700). M does say the 7194's are for "all conventional locomotives" which is why I have some coming from eBay.

And if the new ones aren't strong enough then I'll carefully (this time!) hook the next coil or two to increase the tension.

Stay tuned next week for my next episode!
Offline Paul59  
#9 Posted : 23 April 2024 18:22:11(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: South East
It's easy and quite quick to do (depending on your eyesight!).
I did the one in the picture just for the photo and then put it back as it was afterwards.
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
Offline ccranium  
#10 Posted : 19 May 2024 20:51:47(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 87
Location: Seattle area
Well, life (and the end of ski season!) got in the way of my 3065 until last night. I got some new 7194 springs from eBay and with trial and error, I got the TELEX and reverser to work consistently. I had to hook the 8th coil over the hook to get enough tension though! I nipped the unused coils off once I was satisfied with the results and all is working as-designed.


@MR, I started out by bending the hook some with a screwdriver, but it really didn't want to move much, and in hindsight if I'd moved it enough to compensate for 8 coils I'm concerned the hook would stop bending and would crack instead. I agree that modifiying the coils is a last resort, but it's working. My guess is that the 7194 springs aren't intended for the old TELEX units.

Thank you again to MR, Jim, Jean and Paul for ideas, knowledge and advice!
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Offline Bryan  
#11 Posted : 20 May 2024 12:53:27(UTC)
Bryan

Australia   
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 213
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Adjustment of any old reverse unit has to be done in many areas. The main point is that they are now old and they have the slightest corrosion on all the moving contact faces which stops it running freely. The arm needs to be polished with a near to none abrasive material and apply no oil. This is so the arm moves with the least friction. The points need to be cleaned with same procedure. If too abrasive will scratch and collect dirt in future. Where the arm contacts the ratchet clean with a demel brush. When all done then adjust the spring running with the lights. Lighting has an effect on the current draw and thus the R/U. The spring is then adjusted by adding one spiral at either end at a time. In a nut shell it is quite a craft to learn, however never had one with average use that cannot be fixed to run perfectly with the above.

David
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