Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline waterslip  
#1 Posted : 23 November 2023 20:46:41(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello Community,
I am looking for a decoder for a Marklin 37780, and I don`t want to replace it with the same decoder. I want to add something with sounds and better command for motor propulsion going uphill. The one I have runs fine but terrible when going uphill. All my other digital lokos don`t have that problem.

Any advice on where I can find a Decoder for this model ?

I saw this post that had a similar situation but I can`t find the same model he used. And I tried emailing the company they don`t answer

https://www.marklin-user...-ICE3-digital-conversion

Thanks,
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 23 November 2023 22:28:54(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
Mine also loses tool too much speed upgrade, and too fast down. I wonder if it's the motor that can't keep up. Factory decoder.
Let us know which one you get with correct ICE 3 sounds, and if a dealer uploads it,or you have to use a decoder tool to do the sound files.
Offline waterslip  
#3 Posted : 24 November 2023 00:20:28(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
It’s not the motor. Because I hear the motor revving up when going uphill and vice versa when going downhill. Also if I give max power the train goes uphill with not alot of struggle; It’s definitely the decoder.
I’m checking with Loksound what’s the recommended decoder. Usually the decoder comes with a sound module that has preloaded sounds and a speaker. I’m investigating will let you know…
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 24 November 2023 00:33:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,054
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
It’s not the motor. Because I hear the motor revving up when going uphill


Are you really sure it is the decoder?

If you can hear the motor revving up it sounds to me like wheel slip, rather than a decoder problem. It could also be wear in the gear train, and maybe all it really needs is some mechanical attention.

I would suggest you investigate further before condemning the decoder.

Offline klarinettmeister  
#5 Posted : 24 November 2023 07:47:24(UTC)
klarinettmeister

Sweden   
Joined: 13/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 798
Location: Kirseberg
Hello!

I have both the 37780 and the 37784 Railbow.

I've experienced same issues with 37780, especially when running all 8 cars. It's not because of the decoder. It's because the restaurant car only has 2 driving axles.
One fix would be to change the non-driven axles with driven ones. I've seen this at one home page but I cannot find it now.

It also helps changing to LEDs as this train uses alot of current and there are very small contact surfaces. On the same home page they had rewired the restaurant car with ground to the wheels and also using catenary.

I haven't experimented yet but that's one way to go.

Edited by user 26 November 2023 06:11:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by klarinettmeister
Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 24 November 2023 10:39:28(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
David, the headlights are led, and cars are std. Bulbs? Mine slows down uphill even at very high speed. I have a 5 unit train. Tires are still good.
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 November 2023 10:45:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
I have an 8 unit train. It draws about 1 A while standing and about 1.5 A while driving with lights on.
It only has two powered axles and already stalls on flat track.
I don't think a new decoder will improve the tractive effort, but if it does I should also do the upgrade.

Because of the high current draw the train can slow down in areas that are far away from the feeder wires. Other trains that draw less current will behave differently.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline marklinist5999  
#8 Posted : 24 November 2023 10:47:53(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
On level track mine really flies.
Offline waterslip  
#9 Posted : 24 November 2023 15:38:17(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
I’m experienced exact same. With cars it’s not bad but with 4 cars it’s bad. And on flat surfaces no issues.
But the restaurant car is powering both axles. The motor is propelling both sides of the wagon. So if it’s not the decoder or the motor, how can we improve propulsion ?
The shaft from motor to axles is 58 and 59. Motor is 56

IMG_9979.jpeg3 IMG_9979.jpeg
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 24 November 2023 16:40:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
With current models, the motor powers four axles. I don't know which spare parts are needed to get four-axle drive. See explosion diagram of e.g. 37784.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Ross  
#11 Posted : 24 November 2023 20:48:54(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 864
Location: Sydney, NSW

Hi Waterslip/All,

W-slip a first name would be nice.

Problem:-
As you add extra coaches to increase the train length to a maximum of six intermediate cars plus the two
end cars (this is stated by Märklin) I noticed a considerable drop off in speed which I didn’t like. The
problem is a design constraint for the continuous electrical connection through the entire train which is
made of very small wires and small tracks on the PCB connectors to couple the coaches. As the end cars
increase the distance away from the powered car the resistance increases causing a power loss at the motor.

I overcame the speed loss by doing the following.

1. Replace the the bulbs with LED lighting. This isn't an easy task as the change of direction also changes the polarity for the lighting circuit.
2. Add a ground contact 205783 to the restaurant power car
3. Run the train from the the restaurant power car pantograph.

The result is a very fast train that will also climb grades.
Ross
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Ross
Offline waterslip  
#12 Posted : 24 November 2023 22:51:01(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hi Ross,
Thanks for your reply. I like your approach. How do you go about about replacing to LED's and adding the ground contact to the power can you show us how ? I also don`t have any pantograph lines.
By the way as per Tom's advice I looked up the 37784 and noticed the double axe buggy. That model does have 2 teethed wheel axles (unlike the 37780 which has one).
So I looked up the part number Marklin E368387 and this is the picture:

2023-11-24_16h27_23.jpg


It is part #10 in the the exploded schematics diagram
Would replacing just the buggies work ?

2023-11-24_16h23_11.jpg

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline marklinist5999  
#13 Posted : 25 November 2023 15:39:56(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
As current models drive four axles, Marklin must have made the change for this reason. Thinking more about it, from an engineering perspective, driving two more axles with the same motor uses more energy than driving just two. Gearing has some friction too. A heavier or a double flywheel may help, but also needs more torque to ramp up.
Offline Ross  
#14 Posted : 25 November 2023 21:35:01(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 864
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi ws???

Changing the drive bogie won't increase the speed but will be a source for spare parts when the nylon gear wears out.
Re read the the problem.
My solution will only work with catenary.
Drive the full length train without the lights on then switch lights on does the train slow down?
Start with the two end cars and the power unit run at full speed and time it over a certain distance.
Add one car at a time and repeat the process
As you add cars you will notice the top speed decreases.


Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ross,
Thanks for your reply. I like your approach. How do you go about about replacing to LED's and adding the ground contact to the power can you show us how ? I also don`t have any pantograph lines.
By the way as per Tom's advice I looked up the 37784 and noticed the double axe buggy. That model does have 2 teethed wheel axles (unlike the 37780 which has one).
So I looked up the part number Marklin E368387 and this is the picture:

Would replacing just the buggies work ?


Ross
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Ross
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 25 November 2023 23:17:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,054
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
As current models drive four axles, Marklin must have made the change for this reason. Thinking more about it, from an engineering perspective, driving two more axles with the same motor uses more energy than driving just two. Gearing has some friction too. A heavier or a double flywheel may help, but also needs more torque to ramp up.


From the OPs description I don't think this is the problem, the motor appears to have plenty of power, there just isn't enough traction and the driven wheels slip, so adding some more driven wheels may well be all it needs. Yes there may well be slightly more losses, but I suspect this will be more than offset by the extra available traction on the rails.

The only item from this series that I have is the 37789 transparent three unit ICE made for the 140th anniversary of Marklin, and the limited running I have given it I haven't had a problem like described, so haven't investigated it to see how many driven axles it has.



thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.652 seconds.