Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 08 November 2023 19:21:39(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,833
Location: Montreal, QC
I was reading on several German language forums about potential derailment issues of these new models on switch tracks, as can be seen in this video:



More specifically: https://youtu.be/V_Ib0MO9ZTg?t=734

If you look a few seconds earlier, the locomotive seems to run fine, but just prior to the accident, you hear a "clack" as the locomotive enters the video frame
This seems to have destabilized the locomotive, causing the front bogie to take the wye while the rear bogie continues straight. I can't see on the video the exact track structure coming out of the tunnel on the right side, but it seems that something occurred which triggered the issue, either the slider was knocked out of alignment or perhaps one of the wheelsets?

I don't have the model and have not seen it in person, so I cannot comment on more than what I saw in the video.
I would rather have liked to have seen the train run without the shell, so that we can better see how the bogies move.
Running it with the V320 and BR103 doesn't really help that much.

A second run through https://youtu.be/V_Ib0MO9ZTg?t=885 shows that the locomotive passes through an S-curve on the exit from the tunnel.
A third run through https://youtu.be/V_Ib0MO9ZTg?t=904 shows a derailment of the rear bogie. This suggests to me that the slider (front bogie) may not be the issue

A shot of the chassis from earlier in the video does not show any obvious sign of a potential issue https://youtu.be/V_Ib0MO9ZTg?t=178
I wonder if the bogie completely clears the coupling assembly.
A shot of the model running solo over the problematic spot would be helpful here, even better without the shell.

If any of you have this or the other UP or KCS models, have you experienced any issues?

Regards

Mike C
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline Alsterstreek  
#2 Posted : 09 November 2023 13:06:35(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,656
Location: Hybrid Home
Some of the video comments are enlightening:

"@werhaski8158" reported 7 days ago the same problem with derailment of the front wheelset on the slim turnout on the C track. The middle front wheelset is spring-mounted and protrudes slightly. The slightest unevenness on the points, e.g. if they are not flat, or the slightest unevenness the track, especially in tight radii, have levered the front wheelset out of the guide. He has leveled two places on turnouts and radii, now it runs on all tracks and turnouts without derailing. Moving the points a little can also help. Now it runs perfectly with good traction on tight radii and two helixes.

"paulchensundfranksmodellba8756" reported 12 days ago that there is an extremely strong spring under the bogies to press the chassis onto the rails. Having shortened this spring, a lot of removal work is necessary, so the bogie is more flexible and adaptable to small bumps. After the intervention the locomotive runs perfectly over all turnouts.

"JeremyCRunge" reported 12 days ago that the front truck fell off when unboxing the loco. After reassembly the loco ran well on R1 curves, but it derailed on a turnout, too. Dissassembling the truck, he saw that one of the small clips that holds the axle in the correct position was not clipped in correctly. A test run after fixing the clip resulted in the loco mastering again R1 curves, but the turnout derailments continued...

"railwaysinh0771" reported 13 days ago the same problem with the turnout. In his opinion it is because the bogies have enough play on the line parallel to the track up and down, but almost none on the line perpendicular to the track. No problem in the straight position, but when branching off. Having shimmed the turnout a little in the direction of the branch it works now.
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline foumaro  
#3 Posted : 09 November 2023 13:23:58(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I will check mine Saturday evening and i will let you know.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by foumaro
Offline bph  
#4 Posted : 09 November 2023 16:06:52(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 970
One interesting thing here is that, compared to the Broadway Limited version which has all 3 axels powered in each truck, it seems like Marklin has redesigned it with "only" two axels powered in each truck. This is when comparing the exploded drawings......
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by bph
Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 09 November 2023 16:58:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,833
Location: Montreal, QC
Is the Maerklin/Trix version adapted from the Broadway Limited model or is it a separate model of the same type of locomotive by a different company?

If it is a separate model, then there is no redesign, but only an interpretation by the designers and engineers who created the model for Maerklin.

Regards

Mike C
Offline bph  
#6 Posted : 09 November 2023 17:41:47(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 970
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Is the Maerklin/Trix version adapted from the Broadway Limited model or is it a separate model of the same type of locomotive by a different company?
If it is a separate model, then there is no redesign, but only an interpretation by the designers and engineers who created the model for Maerklin.

Regards

Mike C

According to Broadway Limited, Märklin leased the tooling from them.
ref this post: https://www.stummiforum.de/t211171f2-USA-Neuheiten-Maerklin-Trix-H.html#msg2509713
also posted on this forum by Alsterstreek
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline bph  
#7 Posted : 09 November 2023 19:15:36(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 970
A user on a HAG forum reported that the wheel spacing was too wide. he measured approximately 14,3 so he squeezed the wheels together a bit and according to him, it solved the issue......
ref: https://www.forum.hag-info.ch/forum/index.php?thread/10989-m%C3%A4rklin-neuheiten-2023/&postID=155230#post155230
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by bph
Offline Unholz  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2023 07:18:53(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,384
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
A user on a HAG forum reported that the wheel spacing was too wide. he measured approximately 14,3 so he squeezed the wheels together a bit and according to him, it solved the issue......
ref: https://www.forum.hag-info.ch/forum/index.php?thread/10989-m%C3%A4rklin-neuheiten-2023/&postID=155230#post155230


Yes indeed, and the next user has discovered additional flaws: https://www.forum.hag-in...postID=155231#post155231
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Unholz
bph
Offline einotuominen  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2023 08:23:42(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 373
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
A user on a HAG forum reported that the wheel spacing was too wide. he measured approximately 14,3 so he squeezed the wheels together a bit and according to him, it solved the issue......
ref: https://www.forum.hag-info.ch/forum/index.php?thread/10989-m%C3%A4rklin-neuheiten-2023/&postID=155230#post155230



What I've learned from converting several two rail (Athearn, Kato, Proto2000) DC locos to Märklin three rail is that the 14,3 mm DC inner flange width will need to be reduced to 13,8 or 13,9 mm. Othervise derailments on turnouts will happen most of the time. After the modification, it basically never happens. It is also an easy task to do, at least with the Athearn / Walthers / Kato wheelsets.

BR,
Eino
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by einotuominen
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2023 08:24:02(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 862
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Do I really see tension brackets has Märklin developed this model on their own Confused


Screenshot 2023-11-10 080609.png

This is exactly the issue with Scandinavian produced models from China, broken on the first maintenance so let's hope the building up their spare parts storage Mellow

Should it start to end like this, no thanks ThumbDown

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

It is time for Märklin to ensure its so-called quality brand Angry
Collecting Swedish items since the 80s / CS3+ / MSW / 60175 Booster / 60881 S88 AC / TC10 Gold / K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class Ra / modelltag.se - Forum modelltag.se - Facebook modelltag.se - YouTube
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jonas_sthlm
Offline bph  
#11 Posted : 10 November 2023 12:10:31(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 970
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
A user on a HAG forum reported that the wheel spacing was too wide. he measured approximately 14,3 so he squeezed the wheels together a bit and according to him, it solved the issue......
ref: https://www.forum.hag-info.ch/forum/index.php?thread/10989-m%C3%A4rklin-neuheiten-2023/&postID=155230#post155230


Yes indeed, and the next user has discovered additional flaws: https://www.forum.hag-in...postID=155231#post155231


I was very tempted to get this model, but I wanted to see some reviews before ordering, and these flaws have put me off. So, I'm glad I did hold back a bit before ordering.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by bph
Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 10 November 2023 13:10:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Jonas, seeing your pictures, it seems to me this does not look AT ALL like a Märklin design. So it may be NO WONDER it does not work on Märklin Tracks
Just a guess on my part, maybe, this is a foreign design of an american loco slightly modified, apparently not thourougly tested on Märklin 3 rail tracks and the protruding Pukos at points
Cheers
Jean
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#13 Posted : 10 November 2023 14:06:50(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 862
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Jonas, seeing your pictures, it seems to me this does not look AT ALL like a Märklin design. So it may be NO WONDER it does not work on Märklin Tracks
Just a guess on my part, maybe, this is a foreign design of an american loco slightly modified, apparently not thourougly tested on Märklin 3 rail tracks and the protruding Pukos at points
Cheers
Jean


Its the general Chinese constructions (cheap and poor plastic) they should not copy the bad selution, go back to screws...

Hope they have control over which metals are used for bogies... like Hobbytrade and some other Asian factories did not have.

UserPostedImage
Collecting Swedish items since the 80s / CS3+ / MSW / 60175 Booster / 60881 S88 AC / TC10 Gold / K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class Ra / modelltag.se - Forum modelltag.se - Facebook modelltag.se - YouTube
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jonas_sthlm
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 10 November 2023 21:46:46(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
I guess I'm about to find out, my first ES44 arrives today, the second is in transit!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline einotuominen  
#15 Posted : 10 November 2023 21:58:24(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 373
Location: Kaarina
The above photo leaves me speechless 😮

-Eino
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 11 November 2023 06:23:02(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
What I've learned from converting several two rail (Athearn, Kato, Proto2000) DC locos to Märklin three rail is that the 14,3 mm DC inner flange width will need to be reduced to 13,8 or 13,9 mm. Othervise derailments on turnouts will happen most of the time. After the modification, it basically never happens. It is also an easy task to do, at least with the Athearn / Walthers / Kato wheelsets.


Upon seeing this comment I measured the inner flange on my 38440 ES44 when it arrived today - the measurement was 14.17mm.

Compare that with my 37040 BR 50 which measured at 14.3mm. I've had the BR 50 on my friend's layout pulling a long train through multiple types of turnouts with no issues.

I put the ES44 on a small loop of C track with curved points and also a pair of 24612 turnouts providing a crossover from outer to inner rail. The loco has been running through that with no issues although I did notice the first time around the loco jumped a bit on the front bogie as it went through both set of turnouts. For lap 2 and subsequent ones there has been no issue.

Next test will be pulling some UP hopper cars (not the new ones but the 48500 brown ones).

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline einotuominen  
#17 Posted : 11 November 2023 07:27:12(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 373
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

Upon seeing this comment I measured the inner flange on my 38440 ES44 when it arrived today - the measurement was 14.17mm.

Compare that with my 37040 BR 50 which measured at 14.3mm. I've had the BR 50 on my friend's layout pulling a long train through multiple types of turnouts with no issues.

I put the ES44 on a small loop of C track with curved points and also a pair of 24612 turnouts providing a crossover from outer to inner rail. The loco has been running through that with no issues although I did notice the first time around the loco jumped a bit on the front bogie as it went through both set of turnouts. For lap 2 and subsequent ones there has been no issue.

Next test will be pulling some UP hopper cars (not the new ones but the 48500 brown ones).



Hi!

Yeah it’s most likely the combination of inner flange width AND the height/shape of the flange.

With DC wheels the wheel falls down to the gap in the turnout fork, because the flange is very low. For that reason having narrower flange width will cause the wheels to pilot themselves over the gap without derailing. I guess this is not true for Märklin flanges that do not fall in to the gap.

However on every Märklin loco I have, the inner width seems to be 13,8mm…

I’d say it’s still worth trying if having issues. There’s a great tool for it: https://www.fohrmann.com/en/rail-gauge-h0.html

Also taking out the middle wheel set could take away the issue, but would obviously introduce other visual issues 😅

-Eino
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by einotuominen
Offline blid  
#18 Posted : 11 November 2023 11:37:09(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Bigdaddy,
Just curious. Do you have lanterns on your turnouts?
My MTH 3-rail only passed the lanterns on slim turnouts.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#19 Posted : 12 November 2023 21:46:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
On my layout I do, but not on my carpetbahn test track.

I ran the loco on my layout for a bit, but this wasn't very successful but only because the layout hadn't been used for some time and some dead spots were encountered. I rescued the ES44 before it disappeared into an area not easily reached, but the loco did not have any point issues on the turnouts it did go over including ones with lanterns. I did notice that because of the locos length there was limited clearance for catenary masts, but at no time did it hit any masts.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline foumaro  
#20 Posted : 20 November 2023 09:35:29(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Finally i find the time to run the loco,i had no problem running her forward or backward via turnouts 24611,24612 and 24620 i have to my layout.The loco running perfect to all speeds and have brilliant sounds.The only thing i have to do is to set accelaration delay and breaking delay the way it fits to my layout.ThumpUp
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by foumaro
Offline foumaro  
#21 Posted : 20 November 2023 09:57:35(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
Bigdaddy,
Just curious. Do you have lanterns on your turnouts?
My MTH 3-rail only passed the lanterns on slim turnouts.


I ran a friend's MTH ES44 loco to my layout.The loco broke the lanterns on 24612 and 24611 turnouts when i do not ran her straight.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by foumaro
Offline vmsysprog  
#22 Posted : 21 November 2023 01:00:19(UTC)
vmsysprog

United States   
Joined: 09/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 60
I’ve had problems with switches/points that have the lantern kits installed. A low riding locomotive or rolling stock with come in contact with the lantern to the point of causing a derailment.

Steve
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by vmsysprog
Offline klarinettmeister  
#23 Posted : 22 November 2023 10:02:38(UTC)
klarinettmeister

Sweden   
Joined: 13/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 798
Location: Kirseberg
Hi all!

There are alot of negative posts about these models.

I received my 38441 the other day. I've only tried it this morning and found out that my unit gets stuck in a normal R2 K track right hand turnout. It only gets stuck riding the cab front to the turnout and running on the switched track. The surface isn't perfect supported. I will investigate but I have a guess that it's the pick-up shoe getting stuck in the rail. Maybe it's too much tension in the pick-up shoe.

It works fine when turning the loco running backwards and no problems at the other right-hand switch.

It works perfectly on my K track slim turnouts, even 4-way. I will do more testing.

The same setup with perfect flatness and also next step is with lanterns and also catenary.

The model is huge compared to German models. It's almost as long as the Big Boy without the tender and the front.

In the picture attached with the normal R2 turnouts is the switch in the middle that the loco gets stuck at.

DSC03833.JPGDSC03831.JPGDSC03832.JPG
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by klarinettmeister
Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 22 November 2023 10:21:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
We had a 38440 at the club meeting yesterday. It worked fine on two slim C track turnouts, but had short circuits most of the time on a third slim C track turnout. Exact cause not yet found.
Not my loco, so cannot investigate further.

The loco really looks big when it stands next to a Flying Scotsman.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline marklinist5999  
#25 Posted : 22 November 2023 13:20:25(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
These running issues are horrible! Is it possible the wheel flanges are too shallow for C track, and or the wheel diameter? There are two or three different ho rail profiles.
Offline H0  
#26 Posted : 22 November 2023 14:31:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
The issue we saw at our club meeting was most likely caused by a short circuit between centre-rail slider and the crossing outer rail. On slim C track turnouts, those crossing rails are powered and the height difference between rail and pukos is fractions of a millimetre.
If the centre-rail slider slightly tilts to the left or right, it can touch the rail.
Some sliders have plastic bars left and right to prevent that.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Bill L  
#27 Posted : 01 December 2023 04:28:34(UTC)
Bill L

United States   
Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: California, Sonoma County
I just received my 38440 yesterday. It is very heavy and has a lot of fragile plastic details. I am afraid I will break some of these details down the road. Actually when I opened the box and took the lok out, a very very small piece of grey plastic something fell out. Still have not figured out where it dropped off from.

Here is the more important question:

I am having trouble running it on my metal M track where it loses power and stops on my 5207 double slip switches when running at slow speeds. Not sure if the wheel lost electrical power or the center pickup shoe lost contact with the center studs. Bending the shoe up or down does not seem to help.
Anyone have this issue and know how to correct it. Thanks.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bill L
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#28 Posted : 01 December 2023 08:07:15(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
I've had 38440 for several weeks now, and 38441 arrived yesterday.

I've ran 38440 around a friend's layout which has many turnouts and curved turnouts and the loco ran with no problems. Two weeks ago we had our Railex exhibition to which we took our Club's H0 modular layout. Unfortunately the loco didn't get very far around the layout but not because of track issues but because someone built a module with a low hanging arch bridge (a non Marklin one) which the loco could not get through through being too tall for the bridge!

It was relegated to yard duties driving between a storage yard and turntable module, which consists of lots of turnouts and a few 3 way turnouts. It traversed everything fine all weekend with no issues.

20231119_081728.jpg

Shot of the yard part of the layout

20231119_081714.jpg

20231118_121400.jpg

20231118_121410.jpg
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline foumaro  
#29 Posted : 01 December 2023 10:26:15(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Perfect locomotive,now we are waiting for the 18 car hopper combo by the end of the year.Love LOL ThumpUp
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by foumaro
Offline marklinist5999  
#30 Posted : 01 December 2023 12:17:11(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
Big Daddy, your club layout is mainly wide sweeping curves. As for small plastic parts, Roco was the predominant brand before. Why even attach them to only be lost? With Marklin, it was mostly a buffer,or a little tow hook mounted behind the coupler on the buffer beam.
Offline dickinsonj  
#31 Posted : 26 January 2024 03:09:55(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
I am bumping this thread to see if there is any more feedback on how well these locos track.

I talked myself out of getting them initially due to the BLI design. My BLI derived UP 844 does not track nearly as well as my Big Boys or Challengers, so that was a red flag for me. I understand why Marklin would want to save development costs by buying the design from BLI, but these locos were not designed to run on Marklin track and have just been adapted for that use.

Just recently I have been reconsidering them but this thread reminds me of why I held back earlier. Two ES44AC locos and that hopper set would not be inexpensive and if they don't run well I would be very, very disappointed.

So after more track time, have the problems been sorted out or are they still causing problems?
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline Bill L  
#32 Posted : 30 January 2024 05:40:00(UTC)
Bill L

United States   
Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: California, Sonoma County
Jim:
My 38440 can only run on K track.
It cannot run on my metal M track. Loses power on the 5207 double slip switches, and sometimes when I push it, it starts to run, and sometimes derails also.

For K track, I do not use the 2210 small curves on my layout. I do not use the curved turnouts 2267. Removed them from my layout years ago, due to lots of derailing.
Do not use the 3-way turnouts due to problems with derailing.

I do use the high speed turnouts 2271 everywhere else, and they work fine for the 38440.

Please note that I also have the ALCO PA (also 6 axles) made in the early 2000s and they run fine on my metal M tracks due to older type wheel flanges (similar to those in the 3015 crocodile wheel flanges). These do not derail and the larger diameter wheel flanges can pick up the wheel current on the M 5207 double slip switches, and runs right through them.

So I only run the 38440 on my K track. I do not have any C track on my layout. They were commercialized after my layout had already been mostly completed.


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bill L
Offline einotuominen  
#33 Posted : 30 January 2024 06:33:46(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 373
Location: Kaarina
How about changing the wheels to ones with bigger flange? What is the diameter of the axle? 🤔

-Eino
Offline dickinsonj  
#34 Posted : 30 January 2024 14:25:53(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Thanks for your feedback Bill. ThumpUp

I am just about to start a new layout and I think that most of the mainlines will be K track, so that is good to know. I have a large amount of C track however which I will be using in less visible areas, so I am also concerned about how these run on C track. I already have issues with some locos on C track turnouts and I really don't want to add any additional problems locos. Most of those problems are slider related and derailments are rare except in those tricky three ways!

I also have an Alco PA loco that is lovely to look at but amazingly noisy, and It does fine running through most of my turnouts. It would be interesting to know if the tracking issues stem from the difference is the wheel flanges, or something about the basic design, which was not made for Marklin track.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Grand trunk  
#35 Posted : 30 January 2024 15:32:44(UTC)
Grand trunk

Canada   
Joined: 29/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Quebec
The problem I had with the 38441 is that the front coupler is too low it get caugh in turnout, which had it change lane each time it pass a turnout.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Grand trunk
Offline marklinist5999  
#36 Posted : 30 January 2024 16:12:51(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
I think it depends too on the ramp approach grades. The Vectrons seem to have a lower coupler too.
Offline dickinsonj  
#37 Posted : 30 January 2024 16:58:09(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Grand trunk Go to Quoted Post
The problem I had with the 38441 is that the front coupler is too low it get caugh in turnout, which had it change lane each time it pass a turnout.


Is that with the knuckle coupler, the Marklin coupler, or both?
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Bill L  
#38 Posted : 30 January 2024 21:00:28(UTC)
Bill L

United States   
Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: California, Sonoma County
Responding to Eino in post #33.

I would love to change the wheels. If someone would post the step-by-step instructions as to how to disassemble the wheel assembly to get the axles/wheels out, that would be greatly appreciated.

This model was not designed by Marklin and I do not know which screws to unscrew. There are a lot of screws, and some are covered by the easily breakable plastic detailing parts, and even when the locomotive is placed upside down on a sponge, I am afraid I will break the plastic details on the sides of the lok. This lok is extremely heavy.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bill L
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#39 Posted : 30 January 2024 22:48:38(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,853
Location: CA, USA
I don't think the issue here is Broadway Limited's fault, I have several of their newer-design locomotives and they have given me less trouble than recent Marklin has...

Points to consider:

Standard Marklin turnouts use R2 for the curved arm/element, which is 17 1/4". A Broadway Limited ES44AC has a minimum radius of 18". That is likely (but not objectively) related to the issues you guys are having, in particular in areas involving multiple curves or S curves surrounding the switch/point of trouble. Or S curves and other problem points of regular R1 & 2 trackage in general...

K track is code 100 rail, that shouldn't be an issue, and actually help with the center pickup and slider clearance. C track, however is less. For C (and for K on the "raised" pukos of switches), I'd check slider compression anywhere that is causing the loco to derail. I have to wonder if the slider is "bottoming out" of clearance on these. I can easily see this being an issue if marklin cut a corner on R&D....

Just ideas, but with logic behind them. I saw these locomotives in real life at the Amhearst Model RR show last weekend, they look great! (and no issues running on the factory display layout...)
SBB Era 2-5
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by 5HorizonsRR
Offline einotuominen  
#40 Posted : 31 January 2024 11:21:29(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 373
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Bill L Go to Quoted Post
Responding to Eino in post #33.

I would love to change the wheels. If someone would post the step-by-step instructions as to how to disassemble the wheel assembly to get the axles/wheels out, that would be greatly appreciated.

This model was not designed by Marklin and I do not know which screws to unscrew. There are a lot of screws, and some are covered by the easily breakable plastic detailing parts, and even when the locomotive is placed upside down on a sponge, I am afraid I will break the plastic details on the sides of the lok. This lok is extremely heavy.



Posts #10 and #13 show the bogies opened.

Thou the axle would have to be of the same diameter as the usual Märklin high flanged wheels. The wheels would also have to be of the same diameter in order to fit in to the plastic detailing like brake shoes etc.

The job itself is not a difficult one and all the tools are available from https://www.fohrmann.com/en/ with very affordable pricing.

-Eino
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by einotuominen
Offline marklinist5999  
#41 Posted : 31 January 2024 12:37:14(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,997
Location: Michigan, Troy
I've been experimenting with different wheels for some cars that derail frequently. I have C track, and it hasn't made much difference. I wonder if trains derail less with K track? A Swiss modeler built a huge layout with K track and says he wouldn't use it again, but rather Roco track because of appearance. He has recreated the entire BLS route. Personally I think K track looks great.
Note that Roco has both code 83 and code 100 rail profile,or at least they did.
I think that Marklin designed the C turnouts in particular to operate well over appearance and are durable. The puko studs are higher than the adjoining tracks. I realize that a certain tolerance is required for good operation but I don't think it is optimal for some cars or locomotives.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#42 Posted : 31 January 2024 18:31:06(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi
There is no question that C-Track is way more precise and up-to present day standards.
With a "normal" C-track (not broken, aging track) most of the derailments are caused by things no related to the track.

Here are possible causes:
- incorrect wheel spacing (the track is made for an interflange spacing of 14.0 to 14.2 mm. DC standard call for 14.4 mm which may be the upper limit for Märklin frogs/counter rails
- fine-scale wheels with a narrower rolling surface and smaller flanges may case them to "fall" into the frogs
- stuck mechanism for close coupling: this seldom appears on Märklin goods wagons but is not seldom with long Märklin coaches with provision for surrent-conducting couplers
- track not laid on a flat surface (sometime just a little "hill" or a little "valley" allows couplers to be caught on switches / crossing elevated studs

Cheers
Jean
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.813 seconds.