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Offline heinrichhess  
#1 Posted : 15 September 2023 00:33:05(UTC)
heinrichhess

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Wales, powys
using semaphore with contract track what is the maximum train to run on them i have a plan for 3 loco's pulling short 4 wheeled wagons up to 25 of them but average of 10 wagons i know speed is a big factor and all so switching track would remove this problem but how many cars are 2 many on contact track ? i all so have an idea of switching of power put that means no signal
sem.jpgm ts.jpg
hess
Offline HO Collector  
#2 Posted : 15 September 2023 18:31:34(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 204
Location: Just north of London
I can't tell you how many are too many, but as a young child I used to run ~7 wagons per train, all ran at top speed, never had a problem other than collisions (some head on) and trains flying off the tracks, that was the biggest fun.

To turn the signal OFF and ON you need the following:
X2 contact tracks
X2 thin small cardboard sleeves.

When you look at the signal's wires there are :
X1 Yellow = Power
X1 Red = Cuts track power to isolated section.
X1 Green = reinstate track power to isolated section.
X2 (Usually) Red with shiny metal connectors at each end.

when you lay your tracks you insert X1 cardboard sleeve in front and after the signal (The contact tracks you can add anywhere you want and run wires, depends on what you want to achieve.) This creates an isolated section of track. Inside this section you insert (on the contact tangs of the tracks) X1 red wire with the metal connectors, the other wire with the metal connector you insert outside of the insulated section, this way you can power the isolated section when there is a need.

Assume that you have X1 stationery train by the signal and you want another train to realises it and send it on its way, you also want that the train that have just left will turn the signal to RED so that the incoming train will stop.
To achieve this you need to connect the GREEN wire to the contact track that is positioned before the signal and the isolated section, this will turn the light to GREEN and the signal's solenoid will allow power into the isolated section. The train leaves the signal and then passes over the other contact track. In turn, this sends a pulse to the signal's solenoid that moves into an OPEN position and cuts the power to the isolated section. the incoming train stops.

I hope that this helps.

Ben
Offline hxmiesa  
#3 Posted : 15 September 2023 19:39:45(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,527
Location: Spain
I use them with 16Vac power (analogue running).
I have been using them on my current layout (around 18 years old) with no problems whatsoever.
Sometimes -in case of disturbances- a train might stop on top of one of these tracks, but I havent burned any solenoids yet! (knock-on-wood).
I also use the equivalent solenoids originally promoted as K-track signals, and they are also just as durable!
Even some Viessman relays (huge white plastic boxes) havent burned either.



Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline BenP  
#4 Posted : 15 September 2023 20:55:04(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: heinrichhess Go to Quoted Post
using semaphore with contract track what is the maximum train to run on them i have a plan for 3 loco's pulling short 4 wheeled wagons up to 25 of them but average of 10 wagons i know speed is a big factor and all so switching track would remove this problem but how many cars are 2 many on contact track ? i all so have an idea of switching of power put that means no signal

hess


Maybe I do not understand the question, but once the signal changes to red, power to the section between track power insulators (paper pieces around red signal wires; see instructions) is off. The train won't move until you change the signal to on with a control box, and power to the track segment is returned. The contact track is an interrupt of one side of ground that activates side plugs when a metal axle connects the other outside (continuous) rail of the contact track. I have used this, for example, for lights when a train goes by. This is analog operation. In digital running, these tracks are used for occupancy feedback, telling the control station to do things (like setting signals).
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline heinrichhess  
#5 Posted : 16 September 2023 03:25:42(UTC)
heinrichhess

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Wales, powys
I'm running block so contact track will not be touched un till signal is clear upon passing signal will hit contact track so question is will 25 wagons sending power to signal solenoid cause it to over heat and brake

hess
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Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 16 September 2023 13:00:11(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,198
Location: Michigan, Troy
Depends on the speed of the train also. If it stops over the block, then could burn out the solenoid. Feedback momentary contact is best.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 16 September 2023 16:00:46(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,184
Location: Paris, France
Hi Hess
When I started with M track in 1961, I soon learned not to use those tracks (ubiquitous back then) but to use the slider-operated ones instead. This was after the scent of a burning solenoid happened to me many times. They were not really burning but rather become much less responsive to orders.
No matter how careful you are, sooner or later you will have a train stop or slow down so that the nylon core of the solenoid will bend and then "mechanical qualities" of the signal or the switch will decrease. I think you are allowed 10 seconds but not much more. It is even worse because at the time it was common practice to have one rail to command at least 2 solenoid items.
Cheers
Jean
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Offline heinrichhess  
#8 Posted : 16 September 2023 17:08:19(UTC)
heinrichhess

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Wales, powys
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Hess
When I started with M track in 1961, I soon learned not to use those tracks (ubiquitous back then) but to use the slider-operated ones instead. This was after the scent of a burning solenoid happened to me many times. They were not really burning but rather become much less responsive to orders.
No matter how careful you are, sooner or later you will have a train stop or slow down so that the nylon core of the solenoid will bend and then "mechanical qualities" of the signal or the switch will decrease. I think you are allowed 10 seconds but not much more. It is even worse because at the time it was common practice to have one rail to command at least 2 solenoid items.
Cheers
Jean


thanks i do have one rail with 2 solenoids i have been putting of switching track as i hear they are less reliable

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