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Offline domino  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2023 18:57:53(UTC)
domino

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: California, Huntington Beach
Does any one know where I can find the schematic for the TGV 37797 .
Thank you for your help.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by domino
Offline PeFu  
#2 Posted : 05 February 2023 22:15:53(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,208
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
Offline domino  
#3 Posted : 05 February 2023 22:27:30(UTC)
domino

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: California, Huntington Beach
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
https://www.maerklin.de/en/products/details/article/37797

Have a look under Downloads…


Thank you for your reply
I did check under "download" but I got the manual ( no schematic ) , spare parts and sound decoder....
It does exist somewhere I just do not know how to find it...
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 05 February 2023 22:44:09(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Domino
I checked both on the Märklin website and on the German web but could not find anything "Märklin TGV Schaltplan".
Of course you can do reverse engineering to find the assignment of pins between cars
Expect to find (just me, guessing):
- 2 contacts for the motor on the trailing engine
- 2 contacts for the loud speaker on the trailing engine
- 1 contact for the slider on the trailing engine
- 1 contact for interior lighting
- 1 contact for red marker on the trailing engine
- 1 contact for rear headlights on the trailing engine
- 1 ground line

Of course I can be wrong
Why do you need the schematic for?
Cheers

Jean
Offline domino  
#5 Posted : 05 February 2023 22:58:16(UTC)
domino

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: California, Huntington Beach
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Domino
I checked both on the Märklin website and on the German web but could not find anything "Märklin TGV Schaltplan".
Of course you can do reverse engineering to find the assignment of pins between cars
Expect to find (just me, guessing):
- 2 contacts for the motor on the trailing engine
- 2 contacts for the loud speaker on the trailing engine
- 1 contact for the slider on the trailing engine
- 1 contact for interior lighting
- 1 contact for red marker on the trailing engine
- 1 contact for rear headlights on the trailing engine
- 1 ground line

Of course I can be wrong
Why do you need the schematic for?
Cheers

Jean


Merci Jean pour votre aide,
Mon TGV ne marche plus , le décodeur est bon, c'est difficile de faire ce que l'on appelle "reverse engineering" sans avoir le schema.
Ce n'est pas evident de suivre le double face circuit imprime, tellement plus simple avec un schema.
Je pense qu'il existe mais difficile a trouver. Je suis curieux de savoir comment ils ont branche le relais qui control le moteur a l'arrière .
Je pense qu'il est raccordé aux lumières, avant, arrière, ce qui control la direction de marche du moteur.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 05 February 2023 23:38:24(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: domino Go to Quoted Post
Je pense qu'il existe mais difficile a trouver. Je suis curieux de savoir comment ils ont branche le relais qui control le moteur a l'arrière .
Je pense qu'il est raccordéaux lumières, avant, arrière,ce qui control la direction de marche du moteur.

Sorry I answer in English because of forum rules.
Rear motor This is quite sure, there is no relay to drive the "rear" motor (simply impossible to control the direction, speed of a motor with a relay). On some earlier "multi-motor units" from Märklin, the motors were in series but now they are in parallel (to be checked).
Lights One thing I am sure of is that the motor circuit (load regulation, speed & direction control) are TOTALLY SEPARATED from the lights.
The lights are driven by MOSFETs on the main PCB to deliver the - voltage while the common (return) is a plus

So, using a multimeter, it is possible to check where each motor side is connected to inter-vehicle pins
If you are sure that the decoder is fine, then it means that the power transistors (two complementary pairs) driving the motors are located on the main PCB and have "given up" (needs replacing).
One way in this direction is to check that all the rest (lights, sounds, headlights) are working fine. If all the rest works fine, it may be worth your while to identify the four power MOSFETs and replace them (2 of one type and two of another type).

Märklin normally (check with them for availability) has the main PCB but will not ship it to you but rather expect your unit to be sent to them for repairs.

Alternately you need to identify the faulty component (your need to be a specialist in electronic, with all the required tools (Oscilloscope, SMD soldering desoldering gear).
Once you have located the faulty component, you need identification to order spares.
IMO unless you deal with an obvious failure (roasted component, etc), I would recommend you to send the unit for repair by Märklin

PS: I am an engineer in micro electronics but one must know his limits. Also in some cases, the PCBs are multi-layers so very difficult to reverse-engineer.

Also, because of German laws against duplicating proprietary technical information, no German person / company will make public a "Schaltplan" schematics, Principle diagram, etc. So don't expect much there
I worked long time ago to deliver the ticketing system in Los Angeles area (near your place) the LACTC now LA MTA on Red, Blue and Green lines.
Cheers
Jean
Offline domino  
#7 Posted : 06 February 2023 00:36:25(UTC)
domino

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: California, Huntington Beach
Jean,
It is very late for you.
I am learning I did not know posts have to be in English... Fine with me and it does make sense.
I just got a new PC board for the main engine and the first car, I am also learning from you that both motor could be in series, to me it would not make much sense because of the voltage drop.
I am going to check, it makes more sense in parallel . I have heard in the past people having problems with the 2 motors "fighting "...

Lights. In all my LED's car light installations I use a relay for fwd and back otherwise there is too much current going through and the decoder output light blows.
It has been working great and I have all my cars with lights.

Motor: The PCB does not have any power transistor driving the motor it is in the decoder. You are raising a point , normally the decoder drives one motor not two but with both it is still ok , each motor draws 240 ma,

Lights, sounds are working I also checked the decoder functions on my decoder tester, they all work fine.

PCB: This one is a two layers, top and bottom, a little easier to check but still time consuming and hassle.

Relay: On the PCB there is a "Latching" 12 V relay, wonder what they use it for, the coil is connected to the "AUX" pin output of the decoder ?
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 06 February 2023 01:09:12(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Domino
Originally Posted by: domino Go to Quoted Post
I just got a new PC board for the main engine and the first car,I am also learning from you that both motor could be in series, to me itwould not make much sense because of the voltage drop.


I know Märklin installed motors in series on earlier multimotor units but not on later, so it is best to verify because I am not sure on this model. The change was cause by users complaining of the slow speed.

Originally Posted by: domino Go to Quoted Post

Motor: The PCB does not have any power transistor driving the motor it is in the decoder. You are raising a point , normally the decoder drives one motor not two but with both it is still ok , each motor draws 240 ma,

Then it means that the drive transistors are directly in the decoder and you may replace it with an mSD3 (60977) programmed with the Märklin sound project for this TGV (37797, it is there). Doing this is cheaper faster than waiting for a Märklin spare decoder which will be factory locked (cannot change the sounds) but you need a CS3 or CS2 or a decoder programmer from Märklin and load the free Märklin s/w mDecoderTool3 mDecoderTool3.
The 60977 power for the motor is 1.1 A so ample enough for this use
Cheers
Jean



Offline domino  
#9 Posted : 06 February 2023 01:46:20(UTC)
domino

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: California, Huntington Beach
Jean, do not forget that the decoder works fine, I did a carefully check on my decoder tester, and just checked it again.
I think I need to put all the cars together in order for it to work, so far I was under the impression that I only needed the 2 first two cars but no.
Did more testing and:
You were correct the two motors are in series, mind bugling to me.... I got it to work now. The whole train set has to be together for the motor loop ( in series ) to work.

I still have some issues with the front and back lights, but that is easy compare to the other problem, I can sleep tonight.
Thank you very much for your kind help Jean, no schematic yet but I am still going to look for it... I still do not know what they are using the latching relay for, need to study this one.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 06 February 2023 02:02:26(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: domino Go to Quoted Post
Thank you very much for your kind help Jean,no schematic yet but I am still going to look for it...I still do not know what they are using the latching relay for,need to study this one.

The relay may be used to switch between the front and rear slider This is done on many Märklin trains and also by the slider inverser platine 60973. This is a bi-stable relay operated by AUX 3 and AUX4.

Because I don't have this TGV but other multi motor Märklin models like the VT 11.5 or the triple Santa fe so all I say must be checked.
cheers
This time I switch off my PC
Jean
Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 07 February 2023 05:21:03(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I think it is possible that the relay switched pickups but the current is not going from that end to the decoder

Mike C
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