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Offline Ivan  
#1 Posted : 14 August 2022 13:59:21(UTC)
Ivan

Germany   
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 103
Location: Potsdam
Märklin 3078 has no light. I inserted two Lichtkörper on both sides (image 1).Then built in two LEDs and calculated the resistor (440 Ohms). The light was too bright, besides I wanted to protect LEDs reverse breakdown voltage when current changes direction at 50 Herz (transformer supplies up to 16 V AC, even more when reversing direction). So I placed two resistors on both sides of feeding AC current (1000 Ohms each to make sure LEDs are well protected) I am not very experienced with electronics. The transformer supplies alternating current at 50 Herz cycles, meaning LEDs operate only in one direction of the current. Human eye cannot detect 50 changes per second, so there is no flickering.I was suggested elsewhere to insert a diode and a resistor into the circuit, but that is beyond my experience, and besides there is no enough room for diode. My question is whether my circuit with two resistors on both sides is OK ? It works well, light is warm white, not too bright and LEDs did not burn out.
Thanks.

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 14 August 2022 15:38:20(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Ivan Go to Quoted Post
... So I placed two resistors on both sides of feeding AC current (1000 Ohms each to make sure LEDs are well protected) I am not very experienced with electronics.
... I was suggested elsewhere to insert a diode and a resistor into the circuit, but that is beyond my experience, and besides there is no enough room for diode. My question is whether my circuit with two resistors on both sides is OK ? It works well, light is warm white, not too bright and LEDs did not burn out.


Nice conversion. The only thing I would recommend is that you do put a small diode (I suggest a 1N4148 which are really small) in the reverse direction across the two LEDs. You will need only one diode. This will protect the LEDs against the reverse voltage during the other half of the sinewave.

copyofserialledwucyg.jpg

The other option is to wire the two LEDs in parallel, but long wire to short wire, then the LEDs protect each other, as one conducts on one half of the sinewave, and the other conducts on the other half of the sinewave. You will not need to change the resistor values if you do this as the change in brightness will be negligible.

I recommend you do one of these adjustments as I wouldn't be happy long term operating LEDs with that much reverse voltage across them, as they will eventually fail due to the amplitude of the reverse voltage. Either solution above will limit this voltage to less than the manufacturers recommended maximum reverse voltage which is usually around 5-6 volts.



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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 14 August 2022 15:50:16(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hello Ivan

Sounds you have a very nice project here.
To answer your question:
- only one resistor is needed (2.2 kOhms in this case)
- either the power is DC or a diode wired in series to stop reverse voltage on the LED (just a precaution because some LEDs don't accept high reverse voltages.

I just installed bicolor LEDs (White and red) on my Märklin 3425 Kittel
3425 Kittel Headlights.png
here is the full wiring
3425 Kittel LEDs R.png
Note In this case, there are no diodes for reverse protection because the mLD3 provides DC

Here is the finished Kittel

Cheers
Jean

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Offline Ivan  
#4 Posted : 14 August 2022 16:08:09(UTC)
Ivan

Germany   
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 103
Location: Potsdam
Quote : The other option is to wire the two LEDs in parallel, but long wire to short wire, then the LEDs protect each other.

Aren`t two LEDs already connected in parallel (long leg to short leg as shown in my diagram) ? If so, it solves the problem as suggested by you, if I misunderstood, I will have to incorporate a diode.
Thank you.





Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 14 August 2022 17:14:12(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ivan Go to Quoted Post
... So I placed two resistors on both sides of feeding AC current (1000 Ohms each to make sure LEDs are well protected) I am not very experienced with electronics.
... I was suggested elsewhere to insert a diode and a resistor into the circuit, but that is beyond my experience, and besides there is no enough room for diode. My question is whether my circuit with two resistors on both sides is OK ? It works well, light is warm white, not too bright and LEDs did not burn out.


Nice conversion. The only thing I would recommend is that you do put a small diode (I suggest a 1N4148 which are really small) in the reverse direction across the two LEDs. You will need only one diode. This will protect the LEDs against the reverse voltage during the other half of the sinewave.

copyofserialledwucyg.jpg

The other option is to wire the two LEDs in parallel, but long wire to short wire, then the LEDs protect each other, as one conducts on one half of the sinewave, and the other conducts on the other half of the sinewave. You will not need to change the resistor values if you do this as the change in brightness will be negligible.

I recommend you do one of these adjustments as I wouldn't be happy long term operating LEDs with that much reverse voltage across them, as they will eventually fail due to the amplitude of the reverse voltage. Either solution above will limit this voltage to less than the manufacturers recommended maximum reverse voltage which is usually around 5-6 volts.



Hi Alan
The red diode as shown in the diagram is incorrectly placed. As it is it will short with any reverse voltage
Two possibilities
- EITHER the diode is in ANTIparallel (the anode of the LED is with the cathode of the diode and conversely the cathode of the LED is with the anode of the diode) with a resistor in series
- OR the diode is in series with the LED and the resistor and absorbing all the reverse tension applied

Cheers
Jean



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Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 14 August 2022 19:40:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Hi Alan
The red diode as shown in the diagram is incorrectly placed. As it is it will short with any reverse voltage


That is exactly what it is there to do. This way the maximum reverse voltage across the LEDs is around 0.6V, the forward voltage drop of the diode. Quite a standard way of protecting against reverse voltage, but does mean that the resistors are carrying current on both halves of the sinewave, so their power dissipation is doubled. however in this application the dissipation will be so low that this will not be a proble,.

P.S. what is the source of the LEDs you used in the Kittel, I have a couple of these to modify.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 14 August 2022 19:47:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Ivan Go to Quoted Post
Quote : The other option is to wire the two LEDs in parallel, but long wire to short wire, then the LEDs protect each other.

Aren`t two LEDs already connected in parallel (long leg to short leg as shown in my diagram) ? If so, it solves the problem as suggested by you, if I misunderstood, I will have to incorporate a diode.
Thank you.


No, you have the two LEDs in series. You have one long leg connected to one short leg, and then supplying power to the other two legs.

What I mean is that the long leg of LED1 is connected to the short leg of LED2, and the long leg of LED2 is connected to the short leg of LED1. Like this ...

copyofserialledwucyg.jpg
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