Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline wildstix  
#1 Posted : 22 January 2022 07:57:27(UTC)
wildstix

Indonesia   
Joined: 12/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Jakarta Raya, Jakarta
Hi beautiful people in the mini world!

Let me break down what I'm facing right now.
First, I just received Märklin heavy-duty car 86200 (Torpedo Ladle Car), and I've done all I can to clean the axles to make the car roll smoothly.

Second, about my layout. It is based on a dogbone template with the left loop radius is around 220mm, and the right loop radius is slightly smaller at around 190mm. The connecting state of the right loop is not as smooth as the left loop, but it's enough for all locos and cars to pass safely.

Then the issue, the 86200 can manage the 220mm radius loop, but it's struggling with the 190mm radius loop. For both directions, the upfront truck of the car always derails. I tried single loco, double locos, pull-push locos, but nothing solves the issue.

So, my question is, is 86200 is unable to handle a loop with a radius smaller than 220mm?

I hope my description is clear enough and thank you before for your inputs and suggestions.
Oka aka W. Kapriandi
Märklin Z scale (mini-club) purist but not a modeler!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by wildstix
Zme
Offline Carim  
#2 Posted : 22 January 2022 11:42:06(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 563
Location: London
If you push it through the curve by hand (putting downward pressure on the leading bogie), does it still derail? If it doesn't, you might get away with adding some weight to the bogies. However, I suspect that the curve is just too tight for this type of wagon.

Carim
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Carim
Zme
Offline husafreak  
#3 Posted : 22 January 2022 18:04:08(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 456
Location: California, Bay Area
Wow, that thing is huge!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by husafreak
Zme
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2022 21:52:07(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 439
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: wildstix Go to Quoted Post
Let me break down what I'm facing right now.
First, I just received Märklin heavy-duty car 86200 (Torpedo Ladle Car), and I've done all I can to clean the axles to make the car roll smoothly.

Second, about my layout. It is based on a dogbone template with the left loop radius is around 220mm, and the right loop radius is slightly smaller at around 190mm. The connecting state of the right loop is not as smooth as the left loop, but it's enough for all locos and cars to pass safely.

Then the issue, the 86200 can manage the 220mm radius loop, but it's struggling with the 190mm radius loop. For both directions, the upfront truck of the car always derails. I tried single loco, double locos, pull-push locos, but nothing solves the issue.

So, my question is, is 86200 is unable to handle a loop with a radius smaller than 220mm?


Well, there's no minimum radius specified in the item description, so I wouldn't expect this to be the problem. In fact, I'd expect it to be able to negotiate 145mm curves, as ridiculous as that sounds!

Sometimes a minor imperfection can cause some items to derail. I had a turnout that would consistently derail bogie gondola wagons. All my other stock had no problem with it at all. Upon close inspection (and our course this turnout was in the most inaccessible part of my layout) I found that the turnout blade was a tiny bit misaligned and snagging on the leading wheel of the bogie. A tiny big of adjustment and now everything is fine.

I assume this car suffers the same problem whichever way round it is? What I'd suggest is you get as close as you can with a good deal of magnification and watch carefully as the car approaches the troublesome spot and derails. I expect you'll see one of the wheels ride up and that will, hopefully allow you to identify exactly where it is snagging.

I'm also assuming the car has metal wheels. The plastic ones are trouble - very prone to cracking and developing defects on the flanges that cause derailments. Even apparently perfect ones don't run well.

Hope this is of help, all the best


Chris

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Poor Skeleton
MmanZme
Offline wildstix  
#5 Posted : 23 January 2022 11:18:35(UTC)
wildstix

Indonesia   
Joined: 12/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Jakarta Raya, Jakarta
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
If you push it through the curve by hand (putting downward pressure on the leading bogie), does it still derail? If it doesn't, you might get away with adding some weight to the bogies. However, I suspect that the curve is just too tight for this type of wagon.

Carim


Hi Carim,

I did your suggestion and nothing derailing. But, I can't measure the weight I gave to the car until it's not derailing. From my feeling, it might be more than a mere point something grams. By the look of the car, even if I have a way to add some weight, I don't see a spot where I can put that extra weight.
My right loop does not only consist of curve tracks, I have a 110mm and a 25mm straight tracks in it. Yes it's not a perfect loop with perfectly smooth connections, but so far all my locomotives and cars can pass it safely. That was why I suspect that the curve is too tight for this type of car. I think I will redo my layout and providing more spacious curves.


Originally Posted by: husafreak Go to Quoted Post
Wow, that thing is huge!


Tell me ‘bout it! Couldn’t comprehend the size until I have it on my hand! Oh and I thing the new generation brushless motor is not made to pull or push this beast, my 88484 Re 14 can’t even move it! 😱


Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Well, there's no minimum radius specified in the item description, so I wouldn't expect this to be the problem. In fact, I'd expect it to be able to negotiate 145mm curves, as ridiculous as that sounds!


Well, I’m going to try to rework my loop. If the problem is not following afterwards, then we should add in the description about the minimal radius for this thing.

Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Sometimes a minor imperfection can cause some items to derail. I had a turnout that would consistently derail bogie gondola wagons. All my other stock had no problem with it at all. Upon close inspection (and our course this turnout was in the most inaccessible part of my layout) I found that the turnout blade was a tiny bit misaligned and snagging on the leading wheel of the bogie. A tiny big of adjustment and now everything is fine.


Yes, and from all your inputs here, I will do the same, readjustment!

Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
I expect you'll see one of the wheels ride up and that will, hopefully allow you to identify exactly where it is snagging.


That exactly what is happen!

Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
I'm also assuming the car has metal wheels. The plastic ones are trouble - very prone to cracking and developing defects on the flanges that cause derailments. Even apparently perfect ones don't run well.


Yes. The wheels and axles are metal. Noticed rust on some of the axles, but I managed to clean and oil them properly.

Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Hope this is of help, all the best


Chris



Thanks Chris!!! This really helps!! 😊
Oka aka W. Kapriandi
Märklin Z scale (mini-club) purist but not a modeler!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by wildstix
Offline husafreak  
#6 Posted : 23 January 2022 16:59:29(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 456
Location: California, Bay Area
While the 86200 has no really good concealed place to add weight (besides drilling and filling the tank) it does look like it would be easy to place a weight directly over the leading axle at either end. Putting the weight there will help to hold down the leading axle and the rest should follow. If this works maybe a rectangular cube of weight could be painted and attached to look like part of the machine. I bought a tin of tungsten which is very heavy and easy to carve or shape for ballasting.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by husafreak
Offline Zme  
#7 Posted : 23 January 2022 20:32:45(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 513
Location: West Texas
Hello everyone hope all is well.

Sometimes it is best to choose the simplest solution and work from there.

I great thing to do is check the area around your track to ensure your scenic materials are not causing an obstruction or making contact with the wagon. Something as large as these wagons are going thru a curve causes them to have a huge swing as it works around the track. Where a small wagon stays within the track area, larger wagons will actually extend in the curves well beyond the track itself. It is possible, something is making contact with your wagon as it swings thru the curve.

Another tool which many have mentioned here, is to use your phone video feature to take a film of your wagons as they roll around the track, especially in the trouble area.

I discovered with my track, the extension of the wagons in the curves caused the wagon itself to make contact with my bushes and fencing on the hill, and this was enough to make it difficult for my engines to pull a longer string of wagons. While this was not an obvious problem, close examination revealed a easy solution to clear some of this scenic material to ensure it is well away from the travel area. The longer the wagon, the more likely this could be causing an issue.

Hope this is helpful.

Take good care.

Dwight

Edited by user 24 January 2022 03:25:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Zme
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2022, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.552 seconds.