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Offline DB Fan  
#1 Posted : 19 January 2022 05:09:12(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Hello
I finally made the decision to convert all my analog engines to digital and have some questions. First I want to mention that I can solder and can follow written instructionsBigGrin . What I don’t know is how to identify the different motors so I can purchase and install the correct 5 pole conversion. I want to install esu sound decoders and was wondering if I could use the 58420 8 pin decoder and just cut the 8 pin of and connect the wires to the motor and lights and speaker. I’m not going to automate my layout (I’m starting to build one. Pictures to come) and only interested to have sound and the independent running of the locos. I purchased a new Ecos 50210 and going to purchase also a Lok programmer as well. Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Robert
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 19 January 2022 06:18:05(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
At this moment in time, I would consider installing a 21 MTC pin or 22 pin plux circuit board, as you want to have the option of using new features as they are released. The 8 pin connectors are for older decoders and may not support all functions available.

https://www.esu.eu/en/pr...n/21mtc-adapter-board-2/

https://www.esu.eu/en/pr.../plux22-adapter-board-1/

Regards

Mike C
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Offline PJMärklin  
#3 Posted : 19 January 2022 06:41:57(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
... What I don’t know is how to identify the different motors so I can purchase and install the correct 5 pole conversion. Robert


Hello Robert,

Over the years I have changed all my analogue locos (bar one) to digital. Nearly all to 5 pole motors and using ESU decoders and LokProgrammer, like you plan.
The article linked here shows you the various motors:
Digital Motor conversions by communtator.pdf (354kb) downloaded 96 time(s).

Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
...I want to install esu sound decoders and was wondering if I could use the 58420 8 pin decoder and just cut the 8 pin of and connect the wires to the motor and lights and speaker. ...
Robert


I would suggest using the ESU 21MTC decoders (e.g. 58419, 58449 if you are looking for v5 sound decoders) in conjunction with a 21MTC adapter board ("adapterplatine") and fine decoder wires (e.g. Brawa 32408 and the other colours). When you alternatively cut a plug off and use the existing wires they do not always reach and then require a splice. The Brawa wire is fine and solders well (for me) and with the adapterplatine you can readily remove/change/upgrade the decoder. Also you can plug the 21MTC ("MärklinTrixConnection" ?) decoder into an ESU decoder tester for more reliable connection to your LokProgrammer.

Regards,

PJ

Edited by user 19 January 2022 13:24:13(UTC)  | Reason: parlance

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Offline PeFu  
#4 Posted : 19 January 2022 06:54:07(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,208
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
What I don’t know is how to identify the different motors so I can purchase and install the correct 5 pole conversion.

I would approach this engine-by-engine. If you know the (Märklin?) article N.o., it will be a pretty easy activity to find products required on ESU or Märklin related forums. Also some older engines could have can type motors, on which no conversion is needed.

Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
i want to install esu sound decoders and was wondering if I could use the 58420 8 pin decoder and just cut the 8 pin of and connect the wires to the motor and lights and speaker.

Yes you can. However note that on some newer engines, there could be electronics installed for managing correct light combinations and voltage. You will find out this by opening the engine or google.

Some hobbyists always install adapter platines in their engines, that enables easy plug-in of decoders. You can find general platines from ESU, but on the net there are also engine specific platines offered, that helps managing correct light combinations and voltage. Actually, often I find it more complex to convert ”newer” than ”older” engines, as there could be more intermediate electronics, need for resistors etc.

You also need to decide if you want to convert to LED lights. If your light bulbs are grounded to the chassi, you can not use the decoder ”light ground” input, which is required to disable light flickering. In these cases, I would in general recommend a LED conversion. Note that resistors will be required.

Finally, available space inside your engine could define the framework for what you can do…

Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
I purchased a new Ecos 50210 and going to purchase also a Lok programmer as well.

The LokProgrammer is great! Finally, from a time consuming and financial p.o.v., an alternative could be to sell the analogue engines and buy already converted engines. But you could miss your ”darlings”, and miss the fun of conversions which some of us find as a great part of the hobby!
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 19 January 2022 13:00:05(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I would add to the recommendation to use a plug in decoder for a couple of reasons - it is easier to make connections to the adapter plate, and if the decoder goes faulty (and there will be ones that do) it is a lot easier to change the decoder. Also makes it easier to update the decoder by taking it out and mounting it on a decoder tester that you hook up to your lokprogrammer.

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 19 January 2022 15:43:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Another thing I meant to say is to make sure you buy the decoders without sound loaded - it works out something like 15-20 euro cheaper per decoder. You are planning on getting a Lokprogrammer anyway, so why pay for someone else to load the decoder already. the sound files are free on ESUs web site.

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Offline DB Fan  
#7 Posted : 20 January 2022 02:32:22(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Thank you Mike and PJ for the links and thank you PeFu and KiwiAlan for the explanations what decoder to choose. That was/is very helpful.ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp

Robert
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#8 Posted : 20 January 2022 05:34:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
The article linked here shows you the various motors:


For those locos (if any) not on that list, try Helmutt Kern's website. He lists all Marklin locos and their motor type up to early 2000's which covers most analog locos.

http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Menue.html
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Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 20 January 2022 11:08:40(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Robert, using the right plugs for the decoder it depends on the loco, if there is enough room use a Plux 22 or MTC 21 adapterplate (8 Aux functions, 2 light functions), ESU has increased the Aux functions to 6 + 2 lightfunctions with an 8 pin socket, it also depends whther they are steam, electric or diesel locos, each loco has the option of various sound slots., for instance steam locos can have; stem generator, gear lights, cab lights, smoke box light, you also have the option of changing lights from bulbs to led's., electric locos cn have cab lights, instrument lights, motorroom lights, marker lights, high beam, it is also recommended since you've indicted to use ESU sound decoder, to buy a loco programmer, it makes it so much esier to program your locos. all Version 5 locosound decoders come with a cube loudspeaker, if you want to go rfurther you can also add all bearings to your motor, front: 2mm x 1.5mm x 4mm, rear: 2mm x 2mm x 4mm depending which motor is in the loco., some later models have a plastic insert in the back of the motor and all you have to do is remove it and insert your 2mm x 1.5mm x 4mm ball bearing, for the brushplate you need a 4mm drill but it has to be precise., any stuff up and you can throw the brush plate away.
the benefit of using an adapterplate is if for any reason in future you want to change the decoder you can do so by just lifting it off the adapterplate and you don't have to worry about any wiring and the same goes for the loudspeaker.

regards.,

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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