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Offline wsscott  
#1 Posted : 17 December 2021 22:10:20(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
I have the Dampfwagen Digital Sound Car since my locomotive doesn't have its own sound. I haven't run it in awhile, and decided to run it yesterday. Initially, before the tracks got some cleaning, the sound of the locomotive chugging would start out slowly, as if its just leaving the station, and then get up to speed with normal sound. But, in 3-4 sections on the track loop the sound would stop, and then start up again, slowly and then up to speed. As it ran after an hour or so, it was only doing this in one section, and it does it in that spot every time it passes it. There's no change in engine speed. So I'm trying to figure out what's causing it. The loop is big, ie. about 15 ft. x 8 ft., so I do have feeder wires. I haven't had this happen before. I don't see any obvious issues with the sections of track where this appears to happen. There's a small gap between the ends of the rails in a few sections but its probably 1/16" at most. Any ideas on what I should be looking for? Could I use a digital multimeter to see if the rails or the center studs in these sections of track are at issue? Thanks.

Stephen
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 18 December 2021 00:26:32(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hi Stephen
Not sure which Dampfwagen you talk about.
I have the Kittel 3425 Dampfwagen in a brown livery with a metal case, it is a steam unit which I converted into MFX.
3425 Kittel R.png
Looking very closely, the Kittel has one traction tire which makes that when running on contact track (I use a lot on my Rocrail Layout) and depending on the orientation, the rail return may occur only by one wheel. This may explain stops when there is anything on the track.
If you have the same unit, maybe adding a rail slider on each side would help for better pickup
Cheers
Jean

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline wsscott  
#3 Posted : 18 December 2021 15:43:33(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Mine is the MARKLIN HO SCALE 49962 DIGITAL DB BAGGAGE SOUND CAR. It has the "slider" on one end of the bottom of the car that contacts the center studs. I have the car currently oriented so that the end with the contact slider is facing towards the "front" of the train towards the locomotive. I don't know if its orientation would make a difference. The locomotive also has that type of center slider and it doesn't react, at least not noticeably, when it goes over that same spot. Its also digital. Does this help you or anyone else?
Offline wsscott  
#4 Posted : 18 December 2021 15:49:25(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
I just looked at the bottom from a photo and it actually has a one piece slider that connects to the middle pins on one end, but it also has 2 copper "sliders" on the inside edges of each of the 2 sets of wheels. I would post a photo but I don't know how to do that. Could you help with that?
Offline bph  
#5 Posted : 18 December 2021 19:10:53(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 994
Originally Posted by: wsscott Go to Quoted Post
But, in 3-4 sections on the track loop the sound would stop, and then start up again, slowly and then up to speed. As it ran after an hour or so, it was only doing this in one section, and it does it in that spot every time it passes it.


have you tried to clean the track ? the sound car is probably more sensitive to dirty tracks than the locomotive.
Offline wsscott  
#6 Posted : 18 December 2021 20:41:49(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Yes I cleaned it, and as I said it cleared up in 2-3 other sections of the loop, but this one section hasn't improved. If its "dirty", is it the rails that are at issue or the third rail posts down the center that are the problem?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 18 December 2021 21:01:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: wsscott Go to Quoted Post
Yes I cleaned it, and as I said it cleared up in 2-3 other sections of the loop, but this one section hasn't improved. If its "dirty", is it the rails that are at issue or the third rail posts down the center that are the problem?


What sort of track is the failing section, M-track, K-Track or C-track?

M-Track can get bent in a manner that effectively lowers the studs below the level that the pickup will contact. This will be more of a problem for a short pickup shoe like the baggage van will have, while the locomotive shoe may be long enough to bridge the low points. The solution is to 'panel beat' the track back to shape to get the studs to the correct height.

K-Track doesn't generally have a problem with the studs, unless someone has been over zealous with cleaning using sandpaper or emery and effectively lower the stud height.

C-Track has a problem similar to M-Track in that the studs can push down into the track piece resulting in the same problem as noted above with M-track. The solution is to turn the track piece over and push on the back of the stud strip so that studs push through the plastic to the proper height.
Offline wsscott  
#8 Posted : 18 December 2021 22:11:26(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Mine is M Track. I'll take out a few pieces and see what I can find. Is the "pickup shoe", the long one running in the center on the studs that floats between the wheels?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 18 December 2021 23:33:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: wsscott Go to Quoted Post
Mine is M Track. I'll take out a few pieces and see what I can find.


OK, It is possible to bend just the center stud strip so the studs are too low without the track being obviously bent. A good visual check of the track will soon show any likely problems.

Originally Posted by: wsscott Go to Quoted Post

Is the "pickup shoe", the long one running in the center on the studs that floats between the wheels?


Yes, also called a slider, or direct translations from German (e.g. by Google) come up with the term 'grinder'.

Offline wsscott  
#10 Posted : 24 December 2021 21:53:14(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Well I've removed 4 sections of track, one of which had a feeder line attached. I checked them out, and can't see any issues. I replaced the section of track where the feeder strip connects, but also tried it without the feeder attached, and it cut out at the same place. So I reversed the direction of the car on the track so that the slider is at the rear to see if that made a difference and nope, still the same. So I held the whistle on as in approached the spot on the circuit and it sounded great and cutout at the same spot, and started blowing right after it passed the spot. So its not just the chugging sound that goes out, other sounds go out too, but resume after passing that section. There's no feeder at that point. I tried to bend the slider slightly to see if it was a contact issue with the center studs, and maybe I didn't do it very aggressively since I don't want to break it, but that didn't make a difference either. So I'm at my wits end. Its got to be a connection at that section of track. The 2 pieces fit together tightly, but there is probably a 1/16" gap between the inside rails of that section. But I don't know how I can close that gap in the rail, since the plastic of the track bed is butted tightly. The outside rail has very little gap. Any ideas on this Christmas Eve? Thanks and Happy Holidays.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 25 December 2021 00:06:50(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hi
I would recommend to:
- inspect the rails where the stop occurs for bent rail and more often, bent stud line (very often on M track). Very easy to correct the stud line by pushing it from under the rails. Of course all bent rail sections must be discarded. M track is normally very precise when new.
- for severe cases as seems to be the case here, using a "water abrasive" for car's body work, grade 1000 or higher to clean both the rails and the stud line. Of course it must be used dry (water is for bodywork).
- best is to finish the cleaning, using a piece of hard wood to remove any scratches on the metal surface both on rails AND on studs.
- make sure the slider pressure is appropriate (on clean rails the pressure can be very gentle). Long nose pliers must be used on the flat spring to ensure that the slider surface is 2mm below the rail surface level (when not on rails of course)
- make sure the slider is very straight. It is supposed to contact with 3 of 4 studs at the same time.

Cheers
Jean
Offline wsscott  
#12 Posted : 25 December 2021 15:56:45(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Thanks Jean for your input. Since the problem occurs only at this one spot, on a big loop layout, I have to assume the slider is fine or otherwise I'd have it occurring in other places. So it must be in this one section of track. Given my limited skills, I think the easiest thing is just to put in a new section or two of track. Hopefully that would resolve it. Still can't figure out why the rails have a wider than normal gap in this area. Thoughts on that?
Offline rhfil  
#13 Posted : 25 December 2021 17:08:24(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 425
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
I would run the loco and car slowly over the same area and stop it as soon as the car sound stops. Then disconnect the car from the loco, remove it from the track and then check to see if there is power in the area where the car was. Something might be preventing power in that area. If there is power then at least you know that for some reason the car is preventing the loss of power.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by rhfil
Offline wsscott  
#14 Posted : 25 December 2021 20:37:47(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Thanks. I was trying to test it the other day with a multimeter, but not sure which rails/studs to test, with which DMM leads, and whether AC or DC. Could you help me on this? Thanks.
Offline hxmiesa  
#15 Posted : 26 December 2021 10:28:36(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
clean the track and studs AGAIN (and again...) with a wooden block.
Check the slider to see if it is absolutely straight; Correctly aligned and without any bends.
Clean the ground-pickup of the wheels. I use WD40.
I dont recall you mentioning if the trouble-spot is in a curve or a straight, but you could also check the waggon to search for loose/broken connections (cables) of the power- and ground-pickups.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
Offline bph  
#16 Posted : 26 December 2021 12:38:40(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 994
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post

Clean the ground-pickup of the wheels. I use WD40.

WD40 is generally not recomended. for more information please read https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24595

this video is quite informative

Offline rhfil  
#17 Posted : 26 December 2021 13:37:41(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 425
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
There is an entire discussion about track voltage which turns out to be a combination of ac and dc. But once you identify exactly which area of the track is suspect either one should be registered on a multimeter. There are very expensive multimeters which can read the combined ac/dc voltage which the Marklin's use.
Offline wsscott  
#18 Posted : 26 December 2021 16:15:10(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Thanks everyone for your input. Hopefully I'll get it figured out by the end of this year!! Best.
Offline hxmiesa  
#19 Posted : 26 December 2021 16:20:27(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post

Clean the ground-pickup of the wheels. I use WD40.

WD40 is generally not recomended. for more information please read https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24595
this video is quite informative


Haha. There´s always someone... ;-)
I tried to be specific; I am of course talking about the touching point between the axles and the brass/copper ground-springs. Not about general cleaning.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline wsscott  
#20 Posted : 26 December 2021 18:17:47(UTC)
wsscott

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Well I used my Digital Multi-Meter set to Continuity/Sound mode, and tested the M Track sections before and after the point where the sound stops (including testing sections before the trouble point connected to sections after the trouble point), and everything is fine. I've got continuity on the outside rails with no breaks, and continuity on the center studs. The rails are in continuity with each other but not with the center studs, so that's clean. And the loco runs fine with no change in speed when it crosses this spot. And as I said before, the sound car runs fine in every spot but this one. I do have an oscilloscope that I might hook up somehow, and see if that tells me anything. I"ll keep you posted.
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