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Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 09 December 2021 04:01:46(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everybodyCool

In my main station and the small one in the countryside, I work with marklin 74391 singles.

In my main station I have 6 tracks ) 2 in each direction and 2 in both directions, so I will have 2x 74391 in each track ( 4 x 74391 ) 2 x 74391 per two way track ( 4 x74391 ).

On the right, at the station entrance, 1 track in each direction

Left, at the exit of the track, 2 tracks in each direction

Richelieu Valley Train new Top.jpg



I intend to place advanced signals ( marklin 74380 ). I don't know where I should install them.

Can you help me?

Thanks guys

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Tie  
#2 Posted : 09 December 2021 10:02:24(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Hi
I have looked into this and found it can be a lifetime study to come to the bottom of this... Various Signals have been used in Germany during the Years and different signals are also used in same time period for various lines...
But for Your Question: The advanced signals shall be located so far from the main signals as is required for the train to be able to stop at the main signal when encountering the advanced signal at max allowed speed for that part of the block/line. If advanced (distant) signals shows two Yellow lights, meaning lok driver shall expect stop at next main signal he shall have time to apply brakes at advanced signal and slow down speed to be able to stop when he sees the main signal (and it shows red light)
advanced signals may also be locaded together with main signal when leaving a station... Telling the lookdriver what to expect at next main signal... assume this is used if next block is short....


regards

Thor Inge
Offline Tie  
#3 Posted : 09 December 2021 10:12:18(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Maybe for clarity if not self explaining:
The advanced/distant signal is used because the braking distance for a train is so long that it impossible to stop the train at the main signals on remaining distance when main signals becomes visible... I.e. It is a pre-warning to the lok driver for what to expect at next main signal.
Offline Thewolf  
#4 Posted : 09 December 2021 14:25:01(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: Tie Go to Quoted Post
Maybe for clarity if not self explaining:
The advanced/distant signal is used because the braking distance for a train is so long that it impossible to stop the train at the main signals on remaining distance when main signals becomes visible... I.e. It is a pre-warning to the lok driver for what to expect at next main signal.


Hi TieCool

Thank you for your two answers, I appreciate it but ...I read you and I feel like I'm getting the theory on the principle of forward signals. I think I know the theory. However, my impression may be wrong. In any case, I thought my question was simple and I'll ask it again: where should I place them?
I think I'll talk to Mike from Westend Trains about it, the amount of times I've received advice from him is incredible
Have a nice day

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#5 Posted : 09 December 2021 15:56:26(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
OK guys.Cool

Don't worry about it. Mike's got this.Cool

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 10 December 2021 08:08:33(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi TieCool
Thank you for your two answers, I appreciate it but ...I read you and I feel like I'm getting the theory on the principle of forward signals. I think I know the theory. However, my impression may be wrong. In any case, I thought my question was simple and I'll ask it again: where should I place them?

I think I'll talk to Mike from Westend Trains about it, the amount of times I've received advice from him is incredible
Have a nice day


Yeah Tie... Stop being so insulting! Laugh

I dont know Mike from Westend Trains, but I already think he must possess a supernatural pateince with his costumers...

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
H0
Offline Tie  
#7 Posted : 10 December 2021 12:30:13(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Hope You are joking. No intention to insult antbody. English is not my native language so I may write something tha can be misunderstood🤭
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Tie
Offline Thewolf  
#8 Posted : 10 December 2021 13:30:44(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi TieCool
Thank you for your two answers, I appreciate it but ...I read you and I feel like I'm getting the theory on the principle of forward signals. I think I know the theory. However, my impression may be wrong. In any case, I thought my question was simple and I'll ask it again: where should I place them?

I think I'll talk to Mike from Westend Trains about it, the amount of times I've received advice from him is incredible
Have a nice day


Yeah Tie... Stop being so insulting! Laugh

I dont know Mike from Westend Trains, but I already think he must possess a supernatural pateince with his costumers...



hxmiesa

Do you have a problem with me?

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 10 December 2021 14:04:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Tie Go to Quoted Post
Hope You are joking. No intention to insult antbody.
Everything's fine. He was kidding.
Sometimes, when you see a question on this forum, just wait 24 hours before attempting to answer it.
Sometimes you will find that the issue was resolved outside the forum by Mike. And the solution will never be shared on the forum.

In other cases it is good to answer questions immediately on the forum so that other members can learn from the answers.
Sharing answers here is what this forum is all about.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 10 December 2021 14:22:24(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Tie Go to Quoted Post
Hope You are joking. No intention to insult antbody. English is not my native language so I may write something tha can be misunderstood🤭


Yes, this was a joke, mostly for people who have been on this forum for a long time BigGrin

Your answer was actually perfect and 100% correct Cool

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline Thewolf  
#11 Posted : 10 December 2021 15:41:43(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tie Go to Quoted Post
Hope You are joking. No intention to insult antbody.
Everything's fine. He was kidding.
Sometimes, when you see a question on this forum, just wait 24 hours before attempting to answer it.
Sometimes you will find that the issue was resolved outside the forum by Mike. And the solution will never be shared on the forum.

In other cases it is good to answer questions immediately on the forum so that other members can learn from the answers.
Sharing answers here is what this forum is all about.


As far as Mike and I are concerned, I would like to point out that in this particular case of advanced signals, it is impossible for me to share his solution, for the simple reason that he did not give me one, since these advanced signals will be installed on the top of the layout. He simply confirmed his intention to help me when the time comes, as I am still busy on the 1st level, the one of the hidden station.To finish, it seems to me that the relations on this forum are more and more difficult and I hesitate more and more to be active. This is an impression I have. If it is wrong, so much the better, but not long ago a member who intervened in this post told me outright that if I was not capable of doing the minimum manually in the world of HO railroading, I should refrain from doing this hobby. In real life, face to face, I wonder if he would have had the audacity to say that to me: I doubt it very much because his remark was disrespectful and deserved a very dry backlash

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Bogenschütze  
#12 Posted : 10 December 2021 16:27:52(UTC)
Bogenschütze

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 141
Location: England, Chichester
Hi Everyone.

I've been a member of this Forum for a couple of years and I have found it really useful in developing my knowledge of Märklin products and gaining inspiration from fellow members who have such a wealth of experience. Unfortunately, I have also been somewhat embarrassed and even shocked at some of the personal attacks made on some member's posts by fellow members. Two members in particular seem to provoke the ire of certain other members who almost queue up to pen insults at them as soon as they post something. No names need be mentioned.

I think that as the lingua franca of this Forum is English, and many of our members are not native English speakers, that misunderstandings often occur as to what is being communicated. Can I make a plea that we all make allowances for any clumsiness or perceived rudeness in other's responses and instead try to be kind and look for the good in them?

Let's just enjoy this great hobby we are privileged to enjoy.

Keith (an Englishman, but fluent French speaker!)
Marklin - "The train set I never had as a child."
Keith Bowman
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by Bogenschütze
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 13 December 2021 18:21:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
I intend to place advanced signals ( marklin 74380 ). I don't know where I should install them.

Can you help me?
Signalling in real life is very complicated. On MRR layouts signalling will be more or less simplified.
The question is how simple or how realistic do you want to have it?
Since you opted for the 74391 signals I assume you want it strongly simplified.

Larger train stations have entry signals and exit signals.
There is a distant signal at every track leading to an entry signal.
There is another distant signal next to the entry signal that shows the state of the exit signal on the route.
There should be a distant signal at each exit signal showing the state of the next block signal on the route.

Entry signals are usually capable of showing Hp 1 and Hp 2, depending on the route that is set.
Exit signals are usually capable of showing Hp 1 and Hp 2, depending on the route that is set; sometimes on Hp 2 and Hp 00 are needed, sometimes only Hp 1 and Hp 00 are needed.

A simple approach would be having no distant signals at any entry or exit signals. But I'd recommend pairing the entry signals with distant signals unless the budget is very tight.

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
As far as Mike and I are concerned, I would like to point out that in this particular case of advanced signals, it is impossible for me to share his solution, for the simple reason that he did not give me one, since these advanced signals will be installed on the top of the layout.
It's clear that you cannot share this information before you get it.
But for the benefit of others you can still share this information once you got it.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Thewolf  
#14 Posted : 14 December 2021 09:42:40(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
I intend to place advanced signals ( marklin 74380 ). I don't know where I should install them.

Can you help me?
Signalling in real life is very complicated. On MRR layouts signalling will be more or less simplified.
The question is how simple or how realistic do you want to have it?
Since you opted for the 74391 signals I assume you want it strongly simplified.

Larger train stations have entry signals and exit signals.
There is a distant signal at every track leading to an entry signal.
There is another distant signal next to the entry signal that shows the state of the exit signal on the route.
There should be a distant signal at each exit signal showing the state of the next block signal on the route.

Entry signals are usually capable of showing Hp 1 and Hp 2, depending on the route that is set.
Exit signals are usually capable of showing Hp 1 and Hp 2, depending on the route that is set; sometimes on Hp 2 and Hp 00 are needed, sometimes only Hp 1 and Hp 00 are needed.

A simple approach would be having no distant signals at any entry or exit signals. But I'd recommend pairing the entry signals with distant signals unless the budget is very tight.

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
As far as Mike and I are concerned, I would like to point out that in this particular case of advanced signals, it is impossible for me to share his solution, for the simple reason that he did not give me one, since these advanced signals will be installed on the top of the layout.
It's clear that you cannot share this information before you get it.
But for the benefit of others you can still share this information once you got it.



Thank you Ho for your comment about advanced signals

On the other hand, I will of course share Mike's advice on the forum so that everyone can benefit from it.... and I don't think I said or wrote that this was not my intention

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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