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Offline Mman  
#1 Posted : 23 August 2021 16:19:35(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
As Deutsch Bahn staff are on strike today and tomorrow I will just be running Swiss and Austrian traffic on my railways.
As a former (British) Railwayman can’t help feeling that when one’s industry is in dire financial straits it is not the best time for (in)action.
ChrisG
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 23 August 2021 16:38:17(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,136
Location: Michigan, Troy
Collective bargaining is structure, and a tool for negotiating contracts. When a compromise isn't reached before the strike deadline, if an extension of talks isn't sanctioned by either or the employer, or unions, a strike is often the result.
At this time, employee's are also having some financial difficulties. Hopefully this brings the DB back to the table. Neither side get's everything they want. The DB is profitable. The employee's also have a vested interest in the dividends. They don't like being out any more than the company does.
Unions formed because companies wouldn't bargain in fair good faith. When an emplpoyer doesn't anty up, you have to fight for a fair deal.
Half nice day! Glass half full, not half empty, within a limit of course!
When British Rail was near bankruptcy in the late 70's, after reorganiziation or privatizing, did the cost of fares stay where they were, or are they higher today?
Regardeless of how much compensation is alotted to the worlforce, they always increase the costs. The DB became a private corporation and not a Federal entity after the Wall came down. No doubt because there was more money to be made. Fair is fair. Both sides can make a bit more.
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 23 August 2021 16:41:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Members of train driver union GDL are on strike against Deutsche Bahn. Strike already started on Saturday. Other companies are not affected and Deutsche Bahn try to operate some trains.
I will include one Deutsche Bundesbahn train for tomorrow's club meeting.
Regards
Tom
---
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 23 August 2021 20:26:13(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,107
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post

When British Rail was near bankruptcy in the late 70's, after reorganiziation or privatizing, did the cost of fares stay where they were, or are they higher today?


British rail fares are going up at a horrendous rate, and I suspect the Covid Working From Home will cause a lot of people (and their employers) to realise they don't need to travel to London (or wherever they work) every day. It looks like the travel [patterns are going to change drastically.

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Offline Mman  
#5 Posted : 23 August 2021 21:32:20(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
Some of my ex colleagues on Network Rail are currently dreading what they believe to be forthcoming swingeing cuts to expenditure and staff levels.
With 18 months so far of severely reduced passenger numbers but with operating costs that have hardly been cut the deficit must be enormous.
There is certainly a reluctance in many former commuters to resume their daily journeys partly because they want to avoid the daily hardships of today’s uncomfortable trains and partly to avoid the fares.
I assume DB and most other operators are experiencing hard times just now.
ChrisG
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Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 23 August 2021 22:33:01(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Privatization, as a whole, I think was the wrong thing to do... the DR should have been merged into the DB and it stayed Deutsche Bundesbahn. I say that today in 2021, with fill 30 years or so of hindsight of course.

Had it stayed federal, then the workers would have been government workers with all the benefits (and limitations of course) that this entails. But more importantly, the rail system would have been continued to be run as what it should be: a public good and core infrastructure element, rather than a 'for profit' enterprise.

The problem with the 'for profit' stock company (which regardless that the government owns 100% of the shares) is that they cut costs to gain profit margin. And infrastructure and public good doesn't align with cutting costs. You have to keep lines and stations/stops operational, not because they make a profit, but because transportation for people is a society need.

When rail lines get closed and stops removed, people have to buy cars instead - how does that help the environmental situation?
When that rail system then becomes wholey unreliable for commuting or even planned travel, folks depend less on it, switch to cars, and then your demand goes down. Again the wrong direction as road traffic is already horrendous.

From a consumer view, this is the wrong message (strike that prevents commuting workers from getting to/from jobs and keeps tourists from doing their long planned vacations)... by driving them to other modes of transport... and why would anyone plan anything around DB with this going on all the time.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Mman  
#7 Posted : 23 August 2021 23:14:48(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
Several people made a lot of money out of privatising BR but not the tax payer. In the immediate years following the deed the cost to the country of financing the railway went up by five times. Had it been sold off in a vertically integrated way, effectively going back to the pre 1923 type of company who owned everything- infrastructure and rolling stock- and operated it themselves, it probably would have been a better proposition. The model chosen duplicated so many management functions and poor contract writing gave contractors a licence to print money, meanwhile Railtrack the infrastructure owners skimped on any maintenance that could be deferred in order to maintain their dividend leaving a legacy of backlog that took years to overcome after they went bust. As a BR manager at the time I did not approve of the chosen fragmentation model and was disappointed that the steady improvements that BR was making in its latter years were halted. Many of the staff who knew how to run a railway were offered redundancy to make way for a lot of yes men who didn’t.
Supposedly it was the EU that insisted on separation of infrastructure, rolling stock owners and operators yet the French SNCF seems to have resisted this as did DB. We in England are left with some very uncomfortable power hungry trains with a sadly diminishing number of BR’s last finest efforts.
Rant over.
ChrisG
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Offline marklinist5999  
#8 Posted : 24 August 2021 00:44:57(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,136
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, I agree Alan, Minok, and Chris G. Amtrak and Conrail formed from the bankrupt Penn Central. PRR, and NY Central, etc. That said, it can be a double edged sword. The US is far behind Europe in mass and rapid transit. The Federal Govt. doesn't have funding to expand much, and I suspect big oil and Auto makers, etc. are also to blame.
We don't use our railroads for much more than freight, and a few excursion vacation routes. I realize the USA is much larger in land mass, and providing hydro or other generated power for a system may be a hinderance. With that though, I say if we can dream it? Also can't means won't, until our petroleum supply becomes in dire shortage.
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