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Offline Mman  
#1 Posted : 06 August 2021 12:30:11(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
When I bought the BR05 Cab Forward Streamlined Steamer a few years ago the first thing I did was put it on the rolling road to check that it worked ok. As a very expensive Insider loco it seemed important to check straight away whilst it was guaranteed but because it came with all the bits fitted to make it a nice display model I didn’t try it on a layout so it has remained in its box all this time. At the moment I’m going through all my Z locos testing them for performance and current consumption on my Noch Tessin suitcase layout which includes some gradients, sharp curves and several turnouts to negotiate. (So far I’ve come across three seized locos, two 103s from the 175 year set and one of two Swiss crocs in the 88888 ‘150 Jahre Märklin’ set.)
BR05’s turn came and I removed all the bits to allow it to run and for the price I expected great things.
It managed to haul its tender and two TEE 4 axle coaches up the gradients but that was it!
The next loco to be tested was from the 81418 Swiss Passenger set - the Ae 3/6.
This romped away with not just the two TEE coaches but its own three coaches from the set, only objecting to a sixth coach which was a TEE with lights and hence some extra rolling resistance.
Question is why a heavy six wheel drive is out performed by a lighter six wheel drive one?
Is it because it has to drag its permanently attached five axle tender around as well?
Other than its limited pulling abilities it successfully coped with the tight radii and reverse curves of the Tessin both forward and in reverse and at speed.
Does anyone else actually run the BR05 or are they just for decoration?
It is certainly an attractive looking beast and I will have to obtain a suitable display cabinet for some of my Z collection so it doesn’t stay hidden for too long again.
ChrisG
Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#2 Posted : 06 August 2021 21:17:03(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

United States   
Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 281
Location: New York City
Hallo ChrisG,
Good Lord you spend 1000 Euros on that Gem just to keep it in display cabinet. 🙄 Duh 😒
But thanks for update and personal input on this Märklin white elephant. Let’s see what other have to say about it…
P.S.
I am sitting on fence on this one and won’t comment until I get more details
Regards,
Märklineisenbahn
Offline Toosmall  
#3 Posted : 07 August 2021 00:36:13(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Sydney
I use my trains, what's the point otherwise. My favorites I have bought multiple copies for rolling stock replacement. I have three ICE sets & 18 carriages, even thinking of more, four 8822, six V200 in various stages of disrepair for example. A pair of my ICE engines are getting a bit tired, probably done 2 million scale km, so be it.

I have cut up locos to experiment with. There is no way I would stuff a loco behind armour plated hermetically sealed glass. Use them while your are still putting oxygen to good use!

I have even thought of using gold (19.3) or platinum (21.4) to increase mass. I have done casting of high value metals in the past.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline parakiet  
#4 Posted : 07 August 2021 17:19:59(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Flanders!
wow.. That cab forward. Very expensive and lots of trouble.
First and last of the Marklin art series. They are trying again with the bronze models now...
Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#5 Posted : 07 August 2021 18:34:22(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

United States   
Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 281
Location: New York City
Hi Parakiet,
Yes, if they would do it right from beginning… but that BR05 model was big flop for Märklin and slap on face. So many has been returned back under warranty. Märklin was trying to carbon copy Trix success with hand made brass models under Fine Art Program - Superb Models indeed made in South Korea - I have few in collection but unfortunately in Märklin Mini Z program it misfired on them big time.
Nowadays Märklin is probing ground with gold , bronze models Ect. Another gimmick just to get your Euros/Dollars out of your wallet.

Regards,
Märklineisenbahn/Dreileiter
Offline Mman  
#6 Posted : 07 August 2021 22:11:51(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
So, I’m lucky it works at all?
ChrisG
Offline Zme  
#7 Posted : 08 August 2021 01:06:42(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 760
Location: West Texas
Hello. Yours is definitely a spectacular model, you are likely proud to own. I know I would be.

Regarding your disappointment with the pulling power of this model, many in the group have commented on this topic. Pulling power, I believe comes down to the number of drive axles and weight applied to these drive wheels. (Perhaps a more knowledgeable member of the group could chime in on this basic comment). While this model may have many drive axles, the weight over the drive wheels might not be sufficient for it to equal the pulling power of your other model.

Before I considered this, I purchased a BR 78 thinking it would make a good puller, but I discovered it is not. It was pointed out to me, despite its having a heavy weight shell and multiple drive axles, the two pilot trucks at each end prevent the full weight of the model from being concentrated on the drive wheels. In study, I believe the all time best puller of the models considered was the BR 94. It has a heavy shell and five drive axles to move this one up steep grades
(I wish I had one). Notice, both are tank locomotives, that coal tender counts like any other wagon.

I have since run into some odd experiences with my grade challenged layout. Here is one:

I have two E10s (similar to BR110 model but the wheelbase may be slightly shorter). One has the blue shell, the other has the red shell. I would think both would have similar pulling power, but that is not the case. On the one with the red shell I can attach 5 four axle passenger (81439 set) wagons and it will pull all of them around my layout. If I attach the blue locomotive it will not perform equally, but will only pull three wagons. I likely need to study this more, but I believe there are still excepts and disappointments even with similar models. I get surprising performance from my BR 74s and 89s but am disappointed with my BR 64.

It is possible that your new model was not assembled correctly and this is preventing top performance. This frequently happens on new releases especially if manufacturing is also shifted out of Germany. You might consider a warranty claim. It might take awhile, but they do a good job and in return you will have a model you can enjoy on your layout.

Best wishes

Dwight

Offline Poor Skeleton  
#8 Posted : 08 August 2021 16:08:41(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
I estimate that around 50% of new locomotives have some sort of problem that requires attention from myself or returning the locomotive. I have to say that any expectation of German quality is quickly dashed as far as Marklin are concerned (in Z scale at any rate).

I notice the new Class 141 and the recent V80 have new mechanisms with reduction gearing in the bogies, but both have gained a reputation for poor quality. I wonder if Marklin are over-stretching themselves making increasingly sophisticated models but failing properly to debug the designs at the design stage? As I have observed before, I get the impression that Marklin increasingly see themselves as a manufacturer of collectables, hence the Insider, MFI and now investment casting series and I do wonder if this means a lot of purchases never get run? A terrible waste in my opinion, but each to their own, I suppose.

Like Dwight I have observed that identical models can have different haulage capabilities, although not as dramatically as his experience. I've wondered if the wheels themselves account for this - the black plating certainly polishes off to an extent with use so perhaps this is the cause? I've also noticed that the amount of play in the wheelsets can differ hugely between models so maybe this affects the amount of adhesion?

Ah, the wonderful, mysterious, frustrating world of Z scale!

Cheers


Chris
Offline Mman  
#9 Posted : 08 August 2021 16:15:57(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
Any comparisons done with adhesion properties of Märklin versus Rokuhan track?
There is an adjustable section built in to my Noch Tessin layout using Märklin track, this particular section offers the worst adhesion of all, so rail profile must also figure.
ChisG
Offline parakiet  
#10 Posted : 13 August 2021 22:13:20(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Flanders!
Originally Posted by: Marklineisenbahn Go to Quoted Post
just to get your Euros/Dollars out of your wallet.



Here you can read a post of this forum, a part of the translated article of Trainini


A 3 times higher price for a model which is even worse than normal ones.. faut le faire!
edit: For 1000 euro's they even put some paint over a common screw.

If you compare Marklin with Rokuhan and AZL etc.. M only recently started to catch up..
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by parakiet
Offline Mman  
#11 Posted : 13 August 2021 22:47:31(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
If only I had read this before I bought the loco sight unseen.
Thank you for the link, I wonder if they did re-work them?
ChrisG
Offline parakiet  
#12 Posted : 14 August 2021 00:07:08(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Flanders!
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if they did re-work them?
ChrisG


Well some sellers and customers sent back their locs and they were "adapted"

Of course, not everything got reworked.

So if you want to get (another)one: take a good look at the auction photos. I've seen them without the painted screw.

Now, it is a hobby and in the end we need to make up our own minds. One could spend 1000 euro on 4 or 5 locs. Another could get laser kits. Or you could scratch build a whole city.

I guess, at a certain point you have wat you "need" and you start with the more exotic stuff.
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