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Offline fosuna  
#1 Posted : 27 April 2021 15:39:19(UTC)
fosuna

Spain   
Joined: 14/04/2015(UTC)
Posts: 37
Hi everybody!

In the Märklin CIWL car 4029, it is printed the route Roma-Basel-Köln.

Was this a real train route (a nicht train)? Maybe along the years 1950's and 1960's.

If so, what was its composition (lokomotives, cars,...)? Of course, cars from the CIWL was in such a train for sure.
Again if so, where can I get some information about this nicht train?

Thank you very much in advance.

Happy day for everybody!

Francisco

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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 27 April 2021 16:00:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,112
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: fosuna Go to Quoted Post
Was this a real train route (a nicht train)?
I don't know.
I know the sleeping car was on the Riviera-Express from Italy through to Frankfurt - the train carried on to Hannover without sleeping car.
I just want to say it is possible the train started south of Rome and ended north of Cologne.

Are there revision dates on the coach? Any other information that may give a hint?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Unholz  
#3 Posted : 27 April 2021 16:26:45(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,284
Location: Switzerland
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 27 April 2021 17:21:29(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,016
Location: Southwesternmost
1958/1959 Cologne connections: At least there used to be through cars to and from Rome, Italy attached to the "F9" Rheingold.
F-Zug-Netz-N-S_1.jpg
Source: https://db58.de/2012/08/...in-der-brieftasche-1958/
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#5 Posted : 27 April 2021 17:56:07(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,016
Location: Southwesternmost
In the mid-1950s, the "Holland-Italien-Express" from Amsterdam via Cologne to Rome carried blue Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits (CIWL) sleepers. However, I understand they went not not further south than Milan, Italy.

Info source: https://verein-hsf.ch/ge.../Holland-Italien-Express

zls.png
Image source: https://lebenswege.rlp.d.../karl-heinz-meier-braun/
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Offline fosuna  
#6 Posted : 27 April 2021 18:36:52(UTC)
fosuna

Spain   
Joined: 14/04/2015(UTC)
Posts: 37
Thank you very much to all who answerd to my message.

It looks that the Roma-Basel-Köln is a part of the F9 Roma-London and F10 London-Roma in the F-Netz. Maybe this CIWL car was added/retired in Köln and only did the Roma-Köln / Köl-Roma route. Possible, according with the timetables. I will look into all the links you posted, because thera is very interesting information about international night trains. Thanks.

Francisco
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#7 Posted : 27 April 2021 19:37:33(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,016
Location: Southwesternmost
Some trivia: The prototype for the Maerklin model - CIWL sleping car 4581 type UH (U-Hansa) - was built at Hansa Waggonbau Bremen. Factory photo: https://www.flickr.com/p...os/alcoalbe/49798030303/

You enquired about the 1950s and 1960s, but these cars - even in the original livery - were used much longer. Some more photos over the decades: http://www.railfaneurope.../pix/CIWL/WL/UH/pix.html
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#8 Posted : 27 April 2021 20:25:15(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 350
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
And lest we forget, although some of the pictures have slid off to never-never-land...

https://www.marklin-user...Marklin-CIWL-coach--4029
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 27 April 2021 20:32:45(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
A classic, even at a 1/110 scale of 26.4 cm. I found a 4 car Roco sleeping set in the early 90's at a slight discount. I put a small biulb here and there in them, as it's a night train.
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#10 Posted : 27 April 2021 22:38:04(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
I have found the www.welt-der-modelleisenbahn.com site to be quite informative regarding train consists. Click on the "Datei herunterladen" link at the bottom of the page to get information on the various consists year by year.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#11 Posted : 27 April 2021 23:38:36(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,016
Location: Southwesternmost
The prototype was only 25,1 m long. Thus, the 24 cm long Märklin tinplate 4029 sleeper is 1/105 scale. And the 28.8 cm Roco model is 1/87 scale.

Source:
https://www.modellbahn.n...c-i-w-l-wlabc4uem-u-hans
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Offline fosuna  
#12 Posted : 28 April 2021 07:53:13(UTC)
fosuna

Spain   
Joined: 14/04/2015(UTC)
Posts: 37
Hi everybody!

As I have just discovered, the Roma-Basel-Köln was part of the F 107/108 "Italien-Holland-Express" (Rom-Basel-Köln-Emmerich-Amsterdam) 1953-1967. And F 92-93, from 1967.

Some website pages of interest I've found:
History of the Holland-Italien-Express (in German)
Holland-Italien-Express (in German)
F-Train Italien-Hollan-Express (in German)

Some of these pages have been posted by some of you. Thanks!

Have all a nice day.

Francisco
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#13 Posted : 28 April 2021 11:03:03(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,016
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: fosuna Go to Quoted Post
...the Roma-Basel-Köln was part of the F 107/108 "Italien-Holland-Express" (Rom-Basel-Köln-Emmerich-Amsterdam) 1953-1967. And F 92-93, from 1967.

Some website pages of interest I've found:
History of the Holland-Italien-Express (in German)
Holland-Italien-Express (in German)
F-Train Italien-Hollan-Express (in German)

I have browsed all links and annexes for the relevant sleeper type ("WL AB") and other sleeper types:
South of the Swiss-German border the trains ran during daytime and north of the Swiss-German border at nighttime. Consequently, during most of the time sleepers went not further south than Basel, Switzerland. Some made it until Chur, Switzerland and Milan, Italy. However, no sleeper went to Rome, Italy. Of course, artistic license applies for the model railroader after all.

:O)
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