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Offline Marklinisten  
#1 Posted : 06 March 2021 09:54:06(UTC)
Marklinisten

Sweden   
Joined: 06/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
As you soon are to find out I am a total amateur in the digital world being an analogue man in an digital world.
I am currently building my first larger layout after a +30 year absence to this wonderful hobby.

So basic question...

I have a quite large helix and I would like to have a light entry signal on both ends, I imagine that there should be some kind of indication
that the track is occupied for safety purposes.

What do I need?
M83 or M83 for the signal if I for example use the 74391 or 74380?

As I understand it there a two types of signals, the ones with a built in decoder and the ones without?
From a financial perspective (I am not made of money) what is the best?

How about track detection?
Is that a S88 and what type of track detection is best and most economic?

And how do I connect everything to a CS2..

I suppose that I also needs to have another power feed in the helix if it is isolated for detection

Many I imagine basic questions from an happy amateur.....

Best regards

R
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 06 March 2021 13:24:47(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi R (would be nicer with a first name)
Welcome to the forum.
Märklin signals come in 2 executions:
* normal digital signals with train control contact (70361,70362, 70381, 70391 70392, 70393, 70411, 70412, 70413, 70421, 76480, 76481, 76491, 76493, 76494, 76495,...)
* simplified hobby signals without train control contact (74371, 74380, 74391)

The normal digital signals include semaphore signal with slim or normal mast. They are sophisticated and expensive and don't need a decoder

the simplified hobby signals need to be connected to either a special manual control box (72760) or to a M84 decoder (60842). They are much cheaper and with the M84 allow the same functionalities but much less variety.

You ask if you need a decoder with signals like 74391 or 74380? Answer no it is included.

Track detection: In Märklin 3 rail system, detection is made by M88 (60881) with entries connected to contact rails, switch (slider-operated) rails or self made contact rails.
The M88 works in conjunction with a CS3 or CS2.

For safety purposes (e.g.: your helix) it is best to have long detection zones (one of the rails is isolated from the (0) and occupancy may block following trains
Cheers
Jean


Offline DaleSchultz  
#3 Posted : 06 March 2021 15:12:30(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
You may want to use the approach that the helix is 'occupied' (i.e. both signals are red) unless you know it is free.
When it is 'free' then one of the two signals will turn green, allowing a train into the helix.
In other words only one signal may be green (assuming it is a single track helix).
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Marklinisten  
#4 Posted : 08 March 2021 13:37:17(UTC)
Marklinisten

Sweden   
Joined: 06/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Thanks for all your answers!
It is actually 2 pcs of large double track helixes that are already built.
Now I have something to work with!

Brgds

Roger
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