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Offline harris19  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2021 10:35:08(UTC)
harris19

Greece   
Joined: 11/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 80
Location: Greece
good morning from Greece ,
i am trying to find the difference between 2 codes the one is LILIPUT L388254 Τhe other 88254 from same company.
can anybody explain ?
thank you
Harris
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Offline Unholz  
#2 Posted : 25 January 2021 11:18:35(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Liliput L388254 = produced by Liliput-Bachmann of China, possibly equipped with a close coupling mechanism; Liliput 882 54 = old Austrian production by Liliput Vienna from the 1960's or 1970's, most probably equipped with rigid old-style couplers.
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Offline mario54i  
#3 Posted : 25 January 2021 11:44:27(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 283
Location: Torino,
Besides close coupling mechanism, are they noticeably different ?
New Swiss Express second class coaches are difficult to find, while there are plenty of the old ones on ebay.
Thanks

Offline Unholz  
#4 Posted : 25 January 2021 14:58:32(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Swiss Express? Unsure The numbers indicated in the first posting have nothing to do with Swiss Express (= Einheitswagen III, unified aluminium cars type III for domestic Intercity services) but are orange painted UIC cars for international service with a gangway on one side.
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Offline harris19  
#5 Posted : 25 January 2021 16:12:19(UTC)
harris19

Greece   
Joined: 11/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 80
Location: Greece
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Liliput L388254 = produced by Liliput-Bachmann of China, possibly equipped with a close coupling mechanism; Liliput 882 54 = old Austrian production by Liliput Vienna from the 1960's or 1970's, most probably equipped with rigid old-style couplers.


Thank you for your answer.i have already L388104, L388214 so they are compatible with L388254 , because of the close couplers with nem pocket.
could you please give me your opinion what other cars and loco can i use to create an era IV train? i am using AE 6/6 39364 plus liliput l388104 , 388114 388214
harris
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 25 January 2021 16:21:32(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
There were two editions of the 88254, the first came from Liliput (Vienna) and was a 882 50 (Bm RIC) painted in the orange C-1 "Eurofima" livery. The second may have been still from Liliput (Vienna) or from Liliput Herpa and was identical to the original model, except that it came with a modified coupling shaft which included a NEM socket but no close coupling mechanism.

The 388254 was a reproduction of the same model that was released by Bachmann after it acquired Liliput. the model came with close coupling shafts and NEM sockets.
I never bought this item because the SBB Logo was improperly positioned on at least one side of the model. The <+> symbol is always on the left end of the coach, except on the WRm restaurant, where the "Restaurant" inscription prevented them from applying the logo in that position on one side.

Harris,

For safer operation, I would recommend using either the original Liliput models or looking into newer models of the same type of coach from LS Models.
I have found that the Liliput-Bachmann models are subject to a) the coupling shafts do not extend far enough. This was solved by using the Roco Universal Coupler, which gives an extra mm per coupling; b) the coupling has frequently receded into the coach interior, requiring the coach to be opened to properly reseat the shaft and c) missing springs from the coupling mechanism falling out in use.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Unholz  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2021 16:28:12(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: harris19 Go to Quoted Post

could you please give me your opinion what other cars and loco can i use to create an era IV train? i am using AE 6/6 39364 plus liliput l388104 , 388114 388214
harris


In this case, the ratio of two first class cars to one second class is not quite prototypical. It should actually be the other way round (two second, one first class). Thus, you might want to increase the number of second class cars by two units and perhaps add a dining car plus a baggage car to make the consist look better (if you have the necessary track/platform length). It is not absolutely necessary that all cars are Swiss; in international traffic, a colorful mix of cars from different railway companies and also of individual age was quite common.

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Offline harris19  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2021 16:34:47(UTC)
harris19

Greece   
Joined: 11/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 80
Location: Greece
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
There were two editions of the 88254, the first came from Liliput (Vienna) and was a 882 50 (Bm RIC) painted in the orange C-1 "Eurofima" livery. The second may have been still from Liliput (Vienna) or from Liliput Herpa and was identical to the original model, except that it came with a modified coupling shaft which included a NEM socket but no close coupling mechanism.

The 388254 was a reproduction of the same model that was released by Bachmann after it acquired Liliput. the model came with close coupling shafts and NEM sockets.
I never bought this item because the SBB Logo was improperly positioned on at least one side of the model. The <+> symbol is always on the left end of the coach, except on the WRm restaurant, where the "Restaurant" inscription prevented them from applying the logo in that position on one side.

Harris,

For safer operation, I would recommend using either the original Liliput models or looking into newer models of the same type of coach from LS Models.
I have found that the Liliput-Bachmann models are subject to a) the coupling shafts do not extend far enough. This was solved by using the Roco Universal Coupler, which gives an extra mm per coupling; b) the coupling has frequently receded into the coach interior, requiring the coach to be opened to properly reseat the shaft and c) missing springs from the coupling mechanism falling out in use.

Regards

Mike C


Thank you Mike C after your last post i am looking for LS models.
As for the liliput ones in my small layout i have also derail issues with r2 curves .
from you i always learn and especially for SBB trains
Regards
Harris
Offline harris19  
#9 Posted : 25 January 2021 16:52:59(UTC)
harris19

Greece   
Joined: 11/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 80
Location: Greece
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: harris19 Go to Quoted Post

could you please give me your opinion what other cars and loco can i use to create an era IV train? i am using AE 6/6 39364 plus liliput l388104 , 388114 388214
harris


In this case, the ratio of two first class cars to one second class is not quite prototypical. It should actually be the other way round (two second, one first class). Thus, you might want to increase the number of second class cars by two units and perhaps add a dining car plus a baggage car to make the consist look better (if you have the necessary track/platform length). It is not absolutely necessary that all cars are Swiss; in international traffic, a colorful mix of cars from different railway companies and also of individual age was quite common.



thank you ,
i will start the research and in my opinion for my needs and stuff, it is better to search Maerklin items.
When i choose something for other manufacturer (3, 4 items ) always have issues.
May be i am not experienced user and the other reason is that Maerklin has less Swiss products than others.
Swiss trains are my love !
regards
Harris
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Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 27 January 2021 06:23:46(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
A lot of the 30cm exact scale models can have issues on R2 and tighter radii. I remember running my first 88350 (SBB Bcm) behind my 3050 Ae 6/6 on the 5120 industrial loop that came with the little start set I received at Christmas so that we could run our trains while in Switzerland in 1971. A few months later, I got a pack of 5200s, which made for an oval that just fit on the kitchen table.
I remember the coach tapping on the catenary masts as it went around.

If you have issues with the longer coaches, I would first try to secure AC wheels, which might run better on Maerklin track. if there are still issues, you may be better served by opting for the Maerklin 28cm coaches or seeking out models like Piko's EWI or Roco's EWII, which have a length per coach between 27cm and 28.4cm and are still in exact scale.

As a lot of people are buying the new Piko models or the latest Roco variant, some of the older models from Hag, Lima, Liliput (EWI) and Roco (EWII) can be had for decent prices on auction sites.

The other nice thing about Swiss trains is that due to it's location in Europe, Swiss locomotives could be found pulling trains from all over Europe, be it Italian, Austrian, French, German and even Spanish (Talgo), so you can model almost anything.

If you need any help, just ask.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 27 January 2021 06:30:28(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
If you are looking for LSM, check out the models that they made for PiRATA.
There was one series for the EC Rossini (Schaffhausen-Milano) 97013, 97014 and 97015 and one for the IC Monteverdi (Venice-Geneva) 97009, 97016 and the third set is just 9701.
You can check Eyro.ch, Roundhouse.ch or Buehler-Interlaken.ch for a good selection of LSM and LSM/Pirata stock.

Regards

Mike C
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