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Offline waterslip  
#1 Posted : 19 November 2020 19:34:23(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello Community,
I am having an issue with my locomotive making it uphill, especially if it's a long one. I have a curve on my layout that is going uphill and the train's wheels are getting off the track because of the bend where the curves meet (As you can see in the picture).
track with bend.jpeg

Shorter locos in length have no problems, longer ones are losing contact with track and the train won't move up because of the tiny gap between the wheels and the track (See picture).
train losing track.jpg


I added some rubber spackle to enhance traction and that seems to fix it. However this is not a reliable solution and likely to wear with time. I was wondering if anyone had this issue before and what is the best recommended approach you may suggest ?
Temp solution.jpg





Offline michelvr  
#2 Posted : 19 November 2020 19:48:25(UTC)
michelvr


Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,156
Hello,

Your solution is interesting but please remove it as it will foul/mess up you’re beautiful locomotive!

What you have is what I think is called, track vertically misaligned. Meaning your track is not aligned vertically in the horizontal plane and that needs to be corrected by shimming the underside of the track pieces! Use a flexible steel ruler to make sure that the two track pieces are even and level with no space between them. All the best!
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Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 19 November 2020 20:18:32(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,860
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hello waterslip Cool

I agree with Michel.Cool

The rail is probably not placed on an even and level platform. The platform must be levelled, that's my opinion.

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline waterslip  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2020 21:48:43(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Quebec, Montreal

Hello Michel, thanks for the tip. The track pieces are on a perfectly FLAT but inclined surface. When you say shimming the underside of the track pieces, you mean shaving off some of the plastic from the bottom of the track? Has this worked for you before?
I was thinking maybe perhaps adding fine soldered wire and make sure its all aligned. Thanks again.
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2020 23:33:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,275
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post

Hello Michel, thanks for the tip. The track pieces are on a perfectly FLAT but inclined surface. When you say shimming the underside of the track pieces, you mean shaving off some of the plastic from the bottom of the track? Has this worked for you before?
I was thinking maybe perhaps adding fine soldered wire and make sure its all aligned. Thanks again.


I'm surprised with your answer, it shows perfectly the tracks are not level (photo), until you fix it you will find, your loco will always derail., both members have indicated to you what to do and I agree with them.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline applor  
#6 Posted : 19 November 2020 23:36:46(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,567
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post

Hello Michel, thanks for the tip. The track pieces are on a perfectly FLAT but inclined surface. When you say shimming the underside of the track pieces, you mean shaving off some of the plastic from the bottom of the track? Has this worked for you before?
I was thinking maybe perhaps adding fine soldered wire and make sure its all aligned. Thanks again.




No he's saying that you have an incline change there which is too great, hence why the track join is angled and locos lose traction.

It is suggested that you insert something (ie. a shim - small, thin and flat piece of material) underneath the track where it joins to raise it slightly and flatten the angle.

However that will also increase the angle join for the track pieces on either end too.

In short your gradient change is too great and you need to flatten it out. If it that is not possible you will just need to try and make the gradient changes even across several track pieces so that it is not so pronounced and hopefully prevent traction/derailment issues.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#7 Posted : 19 November 2020 23:40:57(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Location: Oakville, Ontario
It seems that there is a radical change in slope between the two sections. To correct this you must do something like Michel has proposed - you need to add some thin material under the roadbed of your C tracks at this transition to reduce the slope change and therefore raise the rails at the joint. A more gradual slope change will allow all wheels of the locomotive to stay in contact with the rails.

Harold.
Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 19 November 2020 23:47:16(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,742
Location: Montreal, QC
Methinks that Harry might not be crazy after all...

Try increasing the slope of the track preceding the joint, which will reduce the difference in the track at the joint and make the transition more gradual. If you add a mm or two to the base or even start with a mm under the middle of the preceding track section and 2mm at the joint, you can maintain the same height increase at a more gradual rate that will alleviate the increase in elevation beginning right at the track joint.

Try at first adding one mm at the end of the preceding track section. If that is enough, stop there. If there is still a noticeable difference, try my suggestion above 1mm at mid track 2mm at track end and see if that solves it.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline michelvr  
#9 Posted : 20 November 2020 00:28:29(UTC)
michelvr


Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,156
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

Your solution is interesting but please remove it as it will foul/mess up you’re beautiful locomotive!

What you have is what I think is called, track vertically misaligned. Meaning your track is not aligned vertically in the horizontal plane and that needs to be corrected by shimming the underside of the track pieces! Use a flexible steel ruler to make sure that the two track pieces are even and level with no space between them. All the best!


Hello,

Is this a plastic vacuum formed layout? If yes then the builder did not make an even gradient, (incline) and it needs to be fixed.

There is one of two problems.

One: You have a warped piece(s) of track. (or two!)

Two: as mentioned in my post you have a misalignment of the two pieces of track.

Try this;

You will need a small thin flexible 6 inch or 12 inch steel ruler. Bend the ruler to the radius of the track and place the ruler in the middle of the both pieces on top of one of the “rails.” If there is a gap or light coming from that space between the tracks and ruler you then will need to put a shim under the track pieces to level and align then up. Remove them from the layout and then shims them back into place.

Take you time and you will fix this issue without needing to modify the track pieces. All the best!
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Offline Thewolf  
#10 Posted : 20 November 2020 00:45:53(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,860
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Following my comment, if was it simply a break in the slope of the ramp?

This happened to me once many years ago

poblem degree of inclination.pdf (9kb) downloaded 28 time(s).

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#11 Posted : 20 November 2020 03:08:56(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Following my comment, if was it simply a break in the slope of the ramp?

This happened to me once many years ago

poblem degree of inclination.pdf (9kb) downloaded 28 time(s).

Thewolf


This is exactly what I expect is happening. Serge's (Thewolf) diagram definitely helps explain what I was trying to convey.

Harold.

Offline waterslip  
#12 Posted : 20 November 2020 04:28:57(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Following my comment, if was it simply a break in the slope of the ramp?

This happened to me once many years ago

poblem degree of inclination.pdf (9kb) downloaded 28 time(s).

Thewolf


Yes I made sure that there would be no break in the ramp, in other words the entire surface below the tracks is flat (but inclined). And you’re right the 2% is the appropriate inclination level, i’ll double check and try adding a shim. However the rise is too much for the run, in other words I made it too steep over a short travel distance.
Offline Bogenschütze  
#13 Posted : 20 November 2020 12:35:01(UTC)
Bogenschütze

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: England, Chichester
I had a similar problem with my first layout at the transition from level to slope as I was using standard length track pieces (a 24188 straight joined to a 24230 curve). I overcame the problem by replacing the straight with two pieces of 24094 and the curve with two pieces of 24215. This allowed a smoother transition from level onto the gradient.
"The train set I never had as a child."
Keith Bowman
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Offline waterslip  
#14 Posted : 20 November 2020 14:24:37(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Originally Posted by: Bogenschütze Go to Quoted Post
I had a similar problem with my first layout at the transition from level to slope as I was using standard length track pieces (a 24188 straight joined to a 24230 curve). I overcame the problem by replacing the straight with two pieces of 24094 and the curve with two pieces of 24215. This allowed a smoother transition from level onto the gradient.


Bingo ! Yes Bogenschütze you are a genius mon ami ! Why didn’t I think of that? This exactly the case; I have 3x 24230 that I am having issues with, just replace them by 6x24215 will distribute the bending over 6 pieces rather than 3. Thank you, I will try that !
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Offline michelvr  
#15 Posted : 20 November 2020 15:23:32(UTC)
michelvr


Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,156
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bogenschütze Go to Quoted Post
I had a similar problem with my first layout at the transition from level to slope as I was using standard length track pieces (a 24188 straight joined to a 24230 curve). I overcame the problem by replacing the straight with two pieces of 24094 and the curve with two pieces of 24215. This allowed a smoother transition from level onto the gradient.


Bingo ! Yes Bogenschütze you are a genius mon ami ! Why didn’t I think of that? This exactly the case; I have 3x 24230 that I am having issues with, just replace them by 6x24215 will distribute the bending over 6 pieces rather than 3. Thank you, I will try that !



Good morning,

It’s your layout and if you were running other brands of trains I would say try what Bogenschütze has done but you’re running Märklin model trains and they deserve the best running conditions and so......

The best solution is to correct the “cause” so that the “effect” in the relationship between the tracks and rolling stock is free from errors. Using more tracks where the skewed incline is will still cause the result on the others. This is a combination of action and reaction, fix the problems and the problems disappears completely!

You asked for help and I replied with sincerity. ThumpUp

Remembering you’re running European trains




Not North American!




It’s your train set and having fun is all that matters!
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