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Offline ocram63_uk  
#1 Posted : 06 March 2020 18:46:36(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
Good evening folks :-)
My BR 86 digital has the 3 little disks on the motor.
I removed the chokes already but am not sure whether to remove these or not as well.

None of my ESU, Lenz or Uhlenbrock retrofitted engines have them so am really puzzled.

Is there a real technical reason on why I should keep them ?

Based on experience I could happily remove them. What do you think ?

Inkedmotor small - Copy_LI.jpg


Thank you
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 06 March 2020 20:33:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
All of these components are there for a reason. Mostly they are there to suppress high frequency radiation. The capacitors are less commonly seen these days, but the chokes should be retained, as they also offer protection to the decoder from high frequency spikes from sparking.

You're right to say that many retrofitted digitised engines don't have these, as the kits supplied by other manufacturers don't usually bring them and most people don't bother to go out and by them. Marklin do supply the chokes with their decoder kits, so I do fit them when I have them, as long as there is space around the motor for them.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline mvd71  
#3 Posted : 06 March 2020 23:28:34(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,708
Location: Auckland,
I would suggest to put the chokes back in for the reason Ray mentioned, and remove the capacitors (little discs) that are connected to the tab under the screw, but leave the one between the two brushes. This will give you the configuration that Marklin recommend when doing a digital upgrade.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline cintrans  
#4 Posted : 07 March 2020 00:23:17(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
When upgrading (digitizing) a lok with the 60760 kit, the manual of the kit states:

<<< The condensers C2 and C3 must be removed!The motor must not have any ground connection (to the locomotive frame) by means of radio / television interference suppression components!>>>

C1 comes already soldered to the new shield between the two brushes, so that one is OK.
The two chokes should be installed

Jean-Pierre
Offline ocram63_uk  
#5 Posted : 07 March 2020 09:29:58(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
this is how the loco was shipped to me. This is why I'm perplexed. I'll remove the 2 extra discs as well. They didn't look right to me.
Offline mvd71  
#6 Posted : 07 March 2020 09:33:51(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,708
Location: Auckland,
I've just taken the top of a br18 I bought recently. It was factory digital with all the same condesors and chokes your Br 86 has. Perhaps they are OK to leave in? Did you say in your other thread the loco stopped working, but started working again after you removed the chokes?
Offline ocram63_uk  
#7 Posted : 07 March 2020 13:06:49(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
what was happening was that after I stopped the loco, to reverse, it required a nudge to get it move forward when I turned the throttle again.

Today I removed the 3 discs, removed the brush plate, gave it a good clean inside as it was really gritty using isopropyl alcohol and a ear bud.
Used a pipe cleaner to clean the brass brush holders. Used 12000 sand paper to clean the copper drum collector too and replaced the brushes.

All this dirt makes me wonder if the loco was really never used :-(

Anyway re-assembled everything and the noise from the motor which I lamented in my other thread has magically disappeared.

I do not think the chokes and condensers were the cause of the stop / start issue. This was still present after reassembly and to get the loco to move I had to move the first gear of the motor, with the body off. I fiddled around with the screws on the brush holder to try to get it aligned better.

It now does not present the stop / start issues anymore.

But to play it safe I ordered another brush holder E210 881 as this one does not look in order to me

Offline bph  
#8 Posted : 07 March 2020 17:03:02(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
I've just taken the top of a br18 I bought recently. It was factory digital with all the same condesors and chokes your Br 86 has. Perhaps they are OK to leave in? Did you say in your other thread the loco stopped working, but started working again after you removed the chokes?


if they are factory fitted together with the digital decoder, leave them in place. If you upgrade the decoder you might remove 2 of them but not always. (depending on the decoder type)
Offline mvd71  
#9 Posted : 07 March 2020 20:31:30(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,708
Location: Auckland,
It does sound like your stop start issue was not caused by the chokes and condesors, and it's perhaps best to re-install them when your new brush holder arrives (it will come with a condenser already fitted between the two brush holders).

The improved quietness is a good result, and shows the value of a good clean out and lube.

If the problem persists you may need to do a continuity check on the armature. Over the years I have had a few locos demonstrate a similar problem and I traced it to one faulty winding on the armature. When this happens if the loco stops with the armature in the wrong place it will not restart.

Cheers....

Mike
Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 07 March 2020 20:32:25(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
what was happening was that after I stopped the loco, to reverse, it required a nudge to get it move forward when I turned the throttle again.


Well sometimes not only my BR 86 (Märklin 37862-02 mfx) needs a nudge.Smile Then I have regularly to clean the tracks AND the wheels of these locos. On the other hand I am often surprised (also in this case with my BR 86 mfx) after a very long time stored in the cabinet, set up the loco on the tracks, the mfx registration starts after a short while and the loco is running fine. Fascinating. Never made a look inside. Should do it, to tell you if this loco has these chokes too. But never "change anything at a running loco".BigGrin
About the noise I cannot complain too. Even not as loud as e.g. my 39550 G 5/5, which I took for a comparison loudness test.
Offline ocram63_uk  
#11 Posted : 12 March 2020 19:03:11(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
The new brush holder plate has arrived. Mounted and everything now works better than before. No noise and the loco is now being run in :-)
Offline mvd71  
#12 Posted : 12 March 2020 19:19:37(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,708
Location: Auckland,
Excellent news 😊
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