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Offline Harlov  
#1 Posted : 12 February 2020 17:17:33(UTC)
Harlov

Sweden   
Joined: 17/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Skane lan, Kristianstad
Hello

Is there any solution to contact problems on Electrically Operated Double Slip 5128
on the small metal plate, seems that the wheels do not contact the metal plate

5128.jpeg
Offline dominator  
#2 Posted : 12 February 2020 21:33:17(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 796
Location: Kerikeri
hAVE YOU CHECKED THE WHEEL FLANGE DEPTH. If its a Marklin loco it should be ok. If its not, then the flange depth could be smaller if it was originally a 2 rail loco. You have 3 choices if its the latter. 1/ don use it. 2/ run the loco at faster speeds over that switch. 3/ change the wheels on the loco.
The main thing is to thoroughly identify the problem. Personally have not had any problems with either of my double slip switches. The switch in you picture looks like it has been well used and without any problems so maybe it is the loco. Does it work with all your other Marklin locos?
Hope this helps. If not more information and pictures might help more.
Have fun.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dominator
Offline Harlov  
#3 Posted : 12 February 2020 21:54:13(UTC)
Harlov

Sweden   
Joined: 17/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Skane lan, Kristianstad
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
hAVE YOU CHECKED THE WHEEL FLANGE DEPTH. If its a Marklin loco it should be ok. If its not, then the flange depth could be smaller if it was originally a 2 rail loco. You have 3 choices if its the latter. 1/ don use it. 2/ run the loco at faster speeds over that switch. 3/ change the wheels on the loco.
The main thing is to thoroughly identify the problem. Personally have not had any problems with either of my double slip switches. The switch in you picture looks like it has been well used and without any problems so maybe it is the loco. Does it work with all your other Marklin locos?
Hope this helps. If not more information and pictures might help more.
Have fun.

Dereck




Thank you for your reply that helps me
If so, I should measure the wheel flange but where can i find the right dimensions for a Märklin 3132 loco, so I can compare with the old wheels

/Harlov
Offline dominator  
#4 Posted : 13 February 2020 04:54:17(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 796
Location: Kerikeri
All Marklin Locos and rolling stock should have the same wheel flange depth. I am not anywhere near my Marklin so cant tell you right now.

Dereck

ps, the wheel flanges stop the wheels falling between the cracks so to speak. They keep the rolling stock moving at the same level or maybe slightly above. That's why Marklin have designed the wheels this way, to match their track. Other model railway makers have there own rail height etc so necessitate having wheel flanges to match their track.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 13 February 2020 13:17:51(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Dereck is perfectly right. There is another way if you have a Multimeter: measure the resistance between the plate you mention and the rest of the double slip.
Most chances are the plate is connected to ground. If it is not, you will have to remove the nickeled plate by gently bending the tongue that attach them to the track base (after removing the protection plate underneath your 5128)
Here is what it looks like (early model with SPDT switch):
UserPostedImage
I hope it helps

Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Harlov  
#6 Posted : 13 February 2020 14:03:32(UTC)
Harlov

Sweden   
Joined: 17/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Skane lan, Kristianstad
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi

Dereck is perfectly right. There is another way if you have a Multimeter: measure the resistance between the plate you mention and the rest of the double slip.
Most chances are the plate is connected to ground. If it is not, you will have to remove the nickeled plate by gently bending the tongue that attach them to the track base (after removing the protection plate underneath your 5128)
Here is what it looks like (early model with SPDT switch):
UserPostedImage
I hope it helps

Jean



Thank you very much Jean
Do you have the opportunity to send me a bigger picture if you have?

I have tested with a multimeter and I have contact everywhere, but the train always stops there in the middle, but as Dereck says the wheel flange does not really reach down maybe, if I test with a piece of cable from ground on train to rail then it works perfectly , but then it has the ground all the time and should work, nothing strange with that, so I think the metal plate is worn and not able to contact the wheels, I have measured several different wheels from different trains and I get the same dimensions on the wheel flange


5128 baksida.jpeg
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 13 February 2020 14:49:54(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Harlov

If the nickeled piece is connected to ground, then as Dereck wrote, your 5128 is good (not worn) but the big difference is the height of the flanges (large then for Märklin wheel and now much more true to scale, they don't reach the bottom.
Even if it is not rocket science, the depth of the "flange way" is very critical (cannot be easily changed unless you remove the plate very delicately (avoid at all cost to bend it), then make an image of it in very thin cardboard (thickness of 0.3 mm or so) then install back the nickeled plate over the thin cardboard image. Doing so you have raised the "flangeway" by 0.3 mm and it may very well that is works.
Even better, you measure with a caliper the flange height of those engines that stop in the middle and compare with 1950's wheelsets and use appropriate thickness cardboard for your "image".
I need to take a better picture of one of my 5128 double switch. I only have the 5202 in my online set of pictures. Here it is:
UserPostedImage
The 5202 is also an early model with 2 SPDT switches (1961 or so). The later models were simplified.
Just for fun: Here is the 3600DKWS, the 1949 predecessor of the 5128 Double switch with 2 double solenoids
UserPostedImage

Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 13 February 2020 15:07:09(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,766
Location: South Western France
Ah! Yes!
Quoting master Yoda: Subtle problem this is! Laugh

There are a couple of things to look at.
It happens with the 3132, i.e short wheelbase, and one of the axles may present a poor contact with the track.
I think I remember one of the axles is pushed to the track with a small spring, simple "gravity" won't do here.

First , from your original picture, it looks like the base contact plate (that's supposed to catch the flanges ) could use a little cleaning (isopropyl alcohol or lighter fluid on a cotton swab) )

Second, JohnjeanB's photo reminded me of an annoying quirk of these early 5128 and 5207 equipped with the troublesome DP/DT contacts!!

The purpose of these contacts is to connect the adjacent small pieces of rail either to the "ground (i.e the rails) or the center contact (i.e the pukos) depending on the position of the switch!

Going "straight", they should be connected to ground, as to bridge the gap between rails going over the crossing

Going "turn" they should be connected to the pukos , to bridge the gap between pukos because otherwise locos with a short pick up shoe would loose contact: or create a short-circuit with the rails

These small unprotected contacts underneath have a tendency to corrode relatively rapidly .

In normal use, there's quite a lot of arcing and vibrations going on there each time a train passes!

The easy way (no removal from the layout, no need to open) to test is to verify with an ohmmeter that the little pieces of rail are switched correctly from ground/puko, corresponding on the switch straight/turn position

If fails, then you'll have to remove the Double slip from the layout and clean the contacts from underneath.

Good luck!

Cheers

Jacques



Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline jvuye  
#9 Posted : 13 February 2020 15:10:19(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,766
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Harlov

If the nickeled piece is connected to ground, then as Dereck wrote, your 5128 is good (not worn) but the big difference is the height of the flanges (large then for Märklin wheel and now much more true to scale, they don't reach the bottom.
Even if it is not rocket science, the depth of the "flange way" is very critical (cannot be easily changed unless you remove the plate very delicately (avoid at all cost to bend it), then make an image of it in very thin cardboard (thickness of 0.3 mm or so) then install back the nickeled plate over the thin cardboard image. Doing so you have raised the "flangeway" by 0.3 mm and it may very well that is works.
Even better, you measure with a caliper the flange height of those engines that stop in the middle and compare with 1950's wheelsets and use appropriate thickness cardboard for your "image".
I need to take a better picture of one of my 5128 double switch. I only have the 5202 in my online set of pictures. Here it is:
UserPostedImage
The 5202 is also an early model with 2 SPDT switches (1961 or so). The later models were simplified.
Just for fun: Here is the 3600DKWS, the 1949 predecessor of the 5128 Double switch with 2 double solenoids
UserPostedImage

Cheers
Jean


Héhé Jean.
Double solenoids onley appeared in 1952...
A 1949 version would have those annoying and perky single coil click/clack versions!Wink Wink

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Harlov  
#10 Posted : 13 February 2020 15:20:35(UTC)
Harlov

Sweden   
Joined: 17/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Skane lan, Kristianstad
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Harlov

If the nickeled piece is connected to ground, then as Dereck wrote, your 5128 is good (not worn) but the big difference is the height of the flanges (large then for Märklin wheel and now much more true to scale, they don't reach the bottom.
Even if it is not rocket science, the depth of the "flange way" is very critical (cannot be easily changed unless you remove the plate very delicately (avoid at all cost to bend it), then make an image of it in very thin cardboard (thickness of 0.3 mm or so) then install back the nickeled plate over the thin cardboard image. Doing so you have raised the "flangeway" by 0.3 mm and it may very well that is works.
Even better, you measure with a caliper the flange height of those engines that stop in the middle and compare with 1950's wheelsets and use appropriate thickness cardboard for your "image".
I need to take a better picture of one of my 5128 double switch. I only have the 5202 in my online set of pictures. Here it is:
UserPostedImage
The 5202 is also an early model with 2 SPDT switches (1961 or so). The later models were simplified.
Just for fun: Here is the 3600DKWS, the 1949 predecessor of the 5128 Double switch with 2 double solenoids
UserPostedImage

Cheers
Jean


Thanks again Jean
I really should try to do that, have tried to find info on the early wheels but couldn't find anything, but I have taken apart double slip to access so i can take apart the black center lead piece (see picture) but do not know really where to dare to bend it to release so I can access the metal plate so I can make a cardboard piece to put under

5128behind.jpeg
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 13 February 2020 15:59:49(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Harlov

Looking at your picture, the bent tongues are difficult to see. Possibly they are hidden by the stubs (Puckos) plate (in black)
For me to know better I need to look at my own units but they are not there close to me sorry!
Seems more complicated than I thought.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline Harlov  
#12 Posted : 13 February 2020 17:33:32(UTC)
Harlov

Sweden   
Joined: 17/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Skane lan, Kristianstad
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Harlov

Looking at your picture, the bent tongues are difficult to see. Possibly they are hidden by the stubs (Puckos) plate (in black)
For me to know better I need to look at my own units but they are not there close to me sorry!
Seems more complicated than I thought.
Cheers
Jean



I managed to disassemble it without harm
It was not easy to make shims but luckily I found 2 pieces 5128 that I had scraped long ago, so I pick the metal sheet from the old ones and try

2020-02-13 15.38.34.jpg
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Harlov
Offline dominator  
#13 Posted : 14 February 2020 01:44:01(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 796
Location: Kerikeri
Looks like I have learned something from this as well.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline JohnjeanB  
#14 Posted : 14 February 2020 12:46:01(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Harlov
Looks great. Bravo.
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline Harlov  
#15 Posted : 19 February 2020 12:39:54(UTC)
Harlov

Sweden   
Joined: 17/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Skane lan, Kristianstad
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Ah! Yes!
Quoting master Yoda: Subtle problem this is! Laugh

There are a couple of things to look at.
It happens with the 3132, i.e short wheelbase, and one of the axles may present a poor contact with the track.
I think I remember one of the axles is pushed to the track with a small spring, simple "gravity" won't do here.

First , from your original picture, it looks like the base contact plate (that's supposed to catch the flanges ) could use a little cleaning (isopropyl alcohol or lighter fluid on a cotton swab) )

Second, JohnjeanB's photo reminded me of an annoying quirk of these early 5128 and 5207 equipped with the troublesome DP/DT contacts!!

The purpose of these contacts is to connect the adjacent small pieces of rail either to the "ground (i.e the rails) or the center contact (i.e the pukos) depending on the position of the switch!

Going "straight", they should be connected to ground, as to bridge the gap between rails going over the crossing

Going "turn" they should be connected to the pukos , to bridge the gap between pukos because otherwise locos with a short pick up shoe would loose contact: or create a short-circuit with the rails

These small unprotected contacts underneath have a tendency to corrode relatively rapidly .

In normal use, there's quite a lot of arcing and vibrations going on there each time a train passes!

The easy way (no removal from the layout, no need to open) to test is to verify with an ohmmeter that the little pieces of rail are switched correctly from ground/puko, corresponding on the switch straight/turn position

If fails, then you'll have to remove the Double slip from the layout and clean the contacts from underneath.

Good luck!

Cheers

Jacques





What is the function with SPDT Switch

/Harlov
Offline jvuye  
#16 Posted : 19 February 2020 16:51:18(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,766
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Harlov Go to Quoted Post


What is the function with SPDT Switch

/Harlov


The answer to this question was in my reply....

"..... Second, JohnjeanB's photo reminded me of an annoying quirk of these early 5128 and 5207 equipped with the troublesome DP/DT contacts!!

The purpose of these contacts is to connect the adjacent small pieces of rail either to the "ground (i.e the rails) or the center contact (i.e the pukos) depending on the position of the switch!

Going "straight", they should be connected to ground, as to bridge the gap between rails going over the crossing

Going "turn" they should be connected to the pukos , to bridge the gap between pukos because otherwise locos with a short pick up shoe would loose contact: or create a short-circuit with the rails ...."

I know it takes a little bit of investigation to figure it out, but actually these are fairly commeon in 2 rail layouts were you have to commute the polarity of rails in switches.

Hope this helps

Jacques



Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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