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Offline xxup  
#1 Posted : 01 January 2020 10:11:12(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,335
Location: Australia
The purpose of this device is to change over the slider that draws the current at the time you change direction in your railcar. We do this so that the front slider is always the source of current for the loco. Why? For most layouts without a booster or current sensing s88s (e.g. Viessmann 5233) and railcars with only one motor (sometimes) it probably does not matter. But in those other instances, where it does matter, you need one of these units if you are going to change decoders.

It looks like this.

UserPostedImage

The spikes in the middle of the board can hold a 21 pin mLD3 or mSD3. When you use a mSD3 you can plug the speaker into the socket at the lower edge of the board.

Unlike installing a decoder, this is a nightmare. Mainly, because the instructions are so poor and the board itself has no wires or additional pads for lights.

Here is an example of the problem with the instructions:

Quote:

"Outputs 3 (forwards) and 4 (reverse) must be active for the pickup shoe changeover. The setting for this is done in mDT3 be means of the function activator "ALWAYS" and "Action to ALWAYS". The programming here depends on the wiring, and it may be necessary to swap the outputs of the functions."


What the above nonsense means in real English is that you open up the Marklin Decoder Programmer on your PC (You must have the stick, with the decoder, installed into your PC's USB port). After you have read in the settings (using the Read out Decoder option from the Decoder drop-down on the main menu), you select the spanner on the lower Function section of the screen to see the screen below.

Click the + next to special functions and add the "ALWAYS" function then the green tick.. Click on the newly added "Always" then click on the + next to outputs and add output 3 and 4.

UserPostedImage

Click on each output to set the direction.

UserPostedImage

It took me ages to figure this out for myself. I hope it is useful for the next poor soul who buys one of these things.

Another thing that could have been a huge improvement would have been a socket to add a 60974 Buffer Capacitor.

One day, I will look at the ESU 51966. At least their manuals seem to be better.

My ratings (max five *):
Documentation *
Ease of installation **
Fit for purpose **** (does what it claims, after you engage in some Jedi mind reading to translate the "English?" pages in the manual.)
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by xxup
Offline PJMärklin  
#2 Posted : 01 January 2020 11:23:21(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,070
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
The purpose of this device is to change over the slider that draws the current at the time you change direction in your railcar. We do this so that the front slider is always the source of current for the loco. Why? For most layouts without a booster or current sensing s88s (e.g. Viessmann 5233) and railcars with only one motor (sometimes) it probably does not matter. But in those other instances, where it does matter, you need one of these units if you are going to change decoders.

It looks like this.

The spikes in the middle of the board can hold a 21 pin mLD3 or mSD3. When you use a mSD3 you can plug the speaker into the socket at the lower edge of the board.

Unlike installing a decoder, this is a nightmare. Mainly, because the instructions are so poor and the board itself has no wires or additional pads for lights.

Here is an example of the problem with the instructions:

Quote:

"Outputs 3 (forwards) and 4 (reverse) must be active for the pickup shoe changeover. The setting for this is done in mDT3 be means of the function activator "ALWAYS" and "Action to ALWAYS". The programming here depends on the wiring, and it may be necessary to swap the outputs of the functions."


What the above nonsense means in real English is that you open up the Marklin Decoder Programmer on your PC (You must have the stick, with the decoder, installed into your PC's USB port). After you have read in the settings (using the Read out Decoder option from the Decoder drop-down on the main menu), you select the spanner on the lower Function section of the screen to see the screen below.

Click the + next to special functions and add the "ALWAYS" function then the green tick.. Click on the newly added "Always" then click on the + next to outputs and add output 3 and 4.



Click on each output to set the direction.



It took me ages to figure this out for myself. I hope it is useful for the next poor soul who buys one of these things.

Another thing that could have been a huge improvement would have been a socket to add a 60974 Buffer Capacitor.

One day, I will look at the ESU 51966. At least their manuals seem to be better.

My ratings (max five *):
Documentation *
Ease of installation **
Fit for purpose **** (does what it claims, after you engage in some Jedi mind reading to translate the "English?" pages in the manual.)



Hi Adrian (and Happy New Year)

You note one day you will look at the ESU 51966.

Quite some years ago my old 33712 DB 402 (ICE 2) decoder board "blew up" and I had to install a new one. A replacement decoder board (the unit was Delta) was no longer available. I used an ESU LokSound decoder connected with an ESU #51966 "change over skis" (same sort of device as you describe). Instructions were clear, the device easy to install and the lot programmed with my LokProgrammer - it still runs fine. I have another ESU 51966 to hand ready to install when I convert and recondition my old 3071 - to occur sooner now I have retired, as you know.

Regards,

Philip
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by PJMärklin
Offline Bent  
#3 Posted : 01 January 2020 11:46:12(UTC)
Bent

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: Copenhagen,
Hi Adrian

I am digitalizing my old TEE (3071), using this decoder, and have had the same struggle as you describe.

Yesterday I came to the same conclusion/solution as you describe, so I can see that I am on the right track, thanks BigGrin
Google was my friend, not the documentation. I totally agree with your ratings.

When I wanted to download the project to the decoder, it came with an error message, saying the software on the decoder had to be updated first.

I did not buy the decoder programmer (60971), since it seemed like I could program the decoder thru my CS2. But I can´t update the decoder software without the programmer, as far as I can see, so now I have to buy the 60971 in order to make it work.
Cheers,

Bent
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bent
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 01 January 2020 13:33:14(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,018
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Using such a device is easy provided you remember it uses AUS 3 and AUX 4 outputs to switch over the slider.
So with a CS2 and probably a CS3 you may program your decoder to deliver a pulse (e.g. a 1 second pulse on AUX3 on forward and AUX 4 on reverse). Finished.
Now you may need this slider inversion but they are really a pain in the neck on long consists so use it only when you have no PC train control. If you do then they are useless.
Cheers

Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline bph  
#5 Posted : 26 April 2022 12:58:24(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 498
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
It looks like this.

UserPostedImage


I recently did an upgrade using the 60973 and an mSD3, and noticed that the AUX 1 and 2 are incorrectly labelled on the board, they are swapped. But it's correctly in the manual.

otherwise, it worked as intended, and I agree that the documentation could have been better and a susi socket would have been nice. but it worked well just soldering the 60974 to the free pads.

another thing is, that it is possible to add logic to the relay switching, so you can choose to disable the relay switching and drive a locomotive unit alone in both directions. eg on the ICE 1/2 with one motor. (as long as the locomotive is put in forward before you disconnect the train.)
Offline klarinettmeister  
#6 Posted : 26 April 2022 14:10:18(UTC)
klarinettmeister

Sweden   
Joined: 13/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 785
Location: Kirseberg
Hello!

That's good information. That means if you have a locomotive and use different cars with a pick-up shoe to it you could switch off the pick-up shoe changeover while you switch cars. Thus the train could stop correctly at a red signal.


Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
It looks like this.

UserPostedImage


I recently did an upgrade using the 60973 and an mSD3, and noticed that the AUX 1 and 2 are incorrectly labelled on the board, they are swapped. But it's correctly in the manual.

otherwise, it worked as intended, and I agree that the documentation could have been better and a susi socket would have been nice. but it worked well just soldering the 60974 to the free pads.

another thing is, that it is possible to add logic to the relay switching, so you can choose to disable the relay switching and drive a locomotive unit alone in both directions. eg on the ICE 1/2 with one motor. (as long as the locomotive is put in forward before you disconnect the train.)

Edited by moderator 26 April 2022 23:27:38(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed quotes

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by klarinettmeister
Offline Mark5  
#7 Posted : 07 May 2022 02:29:59(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Canada
I like this idea, but hoping Rocrail will help manage without, as Jean indicates. I suppose another scenario could be that its possible to have a loco change over from being slider powered to being pantograph powered. Have been wondering if anyone has managed to have a decoder or an arrangement to do this digitally. Does anyone know if that has been done?
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam... so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
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