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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#1 Posted : 10 November 2019 16:00:00(UTC)
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LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
I have a two track terminus station and I would like to put starter signals on each track. The layout looks like this.
Valdorf Station

I would like to put a couple of home starters where the stars are on the drawing.

At €69 each, having a couple of Marklin versions is out of my budget. Plus, I don't need them to control braking, etc.

I want each signal to be independently controlled so I can set the starter, drive the train out, and then reset it. I don't need, or want, them to be integrated into the track system.

Viessmann have some kits but I don't know how they work.

Can any one point me to a simple solution please?


Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
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Offline TEEWolf  
#2 Posted : 10 November 2019 19:48:20(UTC)
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TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
I have a two track terminus station and I would like to put starter signals on each track. The layout looks like this.

I would like to put a couple of home starters where the stars are on the drawing.

At €69 each, having a couple of Marklin versions is out of my budget. Plus, I don't need them to control braking, etc.

I want each signal to be independently controlled so I can set the starter, drive the train out, and then reset it. I don't need, or want, them to be integrated into the track system.

Viessmann have some kits but I don't know how they work.

Can any one point me to a simple solution please?




What shall be a starter signal and a home starter? Do you have an analogue or a digital layout?
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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#3 Posted : 10 November 2019 20:04:10(UTC)
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LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
I have a two track terminus station and I would like to put starter signals on each track. The layout looks like this.

I would like to put a couple of home starters where the stars are on the drawing.

At €69 each, having a couple of Marklin versions is out of my budget. Plus, I don't need them to control braking, etc.

I want each signal to be independently controlled so I can set the starter, drive the train out, and then reset it. I don't need, or want, them to be integrated into the track system.

Viessmann have some kits but I don't know how they work.

Can any one point me to a simple solution please?




What shall be a starter signal and a home starter? Do you have an analogue or a digital layout?


I have an ECOS and am fully digital. Two two aspect colour lights with their own decoders would seem to fit the bill but there must be a cheaper way than Märklin. I see that Viessmann have some kits whic( could be controlled by function decoders but I am not sure if that works or what Viessmann kits to buy.
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
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Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 10 November 2019 23:22:45(UTC)
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TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post

I have an ECOS and am fully digital. Two two aspect colour lights with their own decoders would seem to fit the bill but there must be a cheaper way than Märklin. I see that Viessmann have some kits whic( could be controlled by function decoders but I am not sure if that works or what Viessmann kits to buy.


Ok you have a digital layout. But why do you want to shut off these track pieces? If you set your digital loco with the controller to zero will be enough.

If you want to shut off and on the electricity from this part of the tracks you always need a decoder. Cheapest way with Maerklin would be a m84 decoder, in my opinion. With this m84 you can switch off 4 different track pieces.
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Offline Purellum  
#5 Posted : 11 November 2019 00:22:16(UTC)
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Purellum

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Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
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Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
But why do you want to shut off these track pieces?


You're completely missing the point............... BigGrin

Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
I don't need, or want, them to be integrated into the track system.


Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
I don't need them to control braking, etc.


Reading the questions BEFORE answering them is always a good idea LOL

Maybe a link to the standard Märklin wire colors would help?

Per.

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Offline Purellum  
#6 Posted : 11 November 2019 00:31:07(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
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Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
Can any one point me to a simple solution please?


I would try to find some defect signals cheap.

Viessmann also have just the signal head without masts and decoder, so you could build something yourself;
but they're for multiplex signals, and I don't even know if they have the home signal.

Do you want semaphore or modern signals?

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

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Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 11 November 2019 01:56:57(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
check out the Viessmann 4018 so called 'Dwarf signals' which would be typical in such sidings.

https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2007/09/Viessmann-4018.html

The signals are always placed to the right of the track (unless there is something exception such as a cliff in the way, and then there is something there to indicate that the signal is on the wrong side). So your star for track 1 need to move to between tracks 1 & 2.

Two aspect signals will typically have 3 wires, one common and one each for the two aspects (stop/go), so any k84 type decoder can do the digital switching of the signals.

yes, treating the signals as 'cosmetic' is the way to go.... i.e. no need for them to switch track power as you have indicated as not needed.

In addition to being prototypical, an advantage of the low signals is that there is less to get bumped by rolling stock and human hands, jersey sleeves etc...
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline twmarklinfan  
#8 Posted : 11 November 2019 05:53:29(UTC)
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twmarklinfan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 08/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 362
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, United Kingdom
Hi David,

Are you looking for semaphore or colour light signals?

Viessmann-Modellbahn.com. You can download the instruction manuals for each signal which shows how to install and connect the signals. The dwarf signals as Dale suggests or have a look at number 4013 departure signal.

If you don’t need train control and you just want a simple signal have a look at the Marklin 74xxx series. I think you might have to buy a control box to control both signals but could be what you are looking for.

Hope this helps
Adrian
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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#9 Posted : 11 November 2019 10:09:56(UTC)
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LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: twmarklinfan Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,

Are you looking for semaphore or colour light signals?

Viessmann-Modellbahn.com. You can download the instruction manuals for each signal which shows how to install and connect the signals. The dwarf signals as Dale suggests or have a look at number 4013 departure signal.

If you don’t need train control and you just want a simple signal have a look at the Marklin 74xxx series. I think you might have to buy a control box to control both signals but could be what you are looking for.

Hope this helps
Adrian


Hi Adrian.

I have seen that I should use ground signals but as they would be on the other side of each train, I wouldn’t see them from my control position. Hence, I think that normal height ones will be needed even if incorrect. I guess that any signal that I buy can be switched by my existing ESU Switchpilot so that would be ok. Are there suitable Märklin/Viessmann no digital ones available?
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
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Offline David Dewar  
#10 Posted : 11 November 2019 13:23:47(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: Scotland
I agree that signals with decoders are expensive but is does look good to have them changing after the train leaves your yard. On the other hand manual control in my view means we are doing something with our layouts and not just standing watching after clicking a mouse. The 74 series from Marklin look to be OK.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#11 Posted : 11 November 2019 14:24:40(UTC)
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LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I agree that signals with decoders are expensive but is does look good to have them changing after the train leaves your yard. On the other hand manual control in my view means we are doing something with our layouts and not just standing watching after clicking a mouse. The 74 series from Marklin look to be OK.


I went into my local hobby shop and they had a tray of Viessmann signals. I got a 4011 for £12. I will play around with that and see how it goes.
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by LongHairedDavid
Offline Tex  
#12 Posted : 11 November 2019 21:26:49(UTC)
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Tex

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Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I agree that signals with decoders are expensive but is does look good to have them changing after the train leaves your yard. On the other hand manual control in my view means we are doing something with our layouts and not just standing watching after clicking a mouse. The 74 series from Marklin look to be OK.


I got into this discussion a bit late , but think that Marklin 74391 start up signals with a 72751 control box would be what is called for. Low cost reliable and makes the operator set the signals by pushing a button . I have used them with no problems . Tex
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#13 Posted : 11 November 2019 21:32:03(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
yea, the taller versions are also legitimate prototypically, and being able to see them is much more important than the risk of bumping them...
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#14 Posted : 14 November 2019 10:47:39(UTC)
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LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I agree that signals with decoders are expensive but is does look good to have them changing after the train leaves your yard. On the other hand manual control in my view means we are doing something with our layouts and not just standing watching after clicking a mouse. The 74 series from Marklin look to be OK.


I got into this discussion a bit late , but think that Marklin 74391 start up signals with a 72751 control box would be what is called for. Low cost reliable and makes the operator set the signals by pushing a button . I have used them with no problems . Tex


I bought two Viessmann 4011 home signals from Scograil locally. I added a new SwitchPilot box (as my current one only had one port left). I changed the SwitchPilot over to K84 mode. I now have both signals set up through my ECOS and I can change them as required by hand. Total cost £54 which is less than the price for one Marklin signal.
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by LongHairedDavid
Offline David Dewar  
#15 Posted : 14 November 2019 10:59:48(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,342
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I agree that signals with decoders are expensive but is does look good to have them changing after the train leaves your yard. On the other hand manual control in my view means we are doing something with our layouts and not just standing watching after clicking a mouse. The 74 series from Marklin look to be OK.


I got into this discussion a bit late , but think that Marklin 74391 start up signals with a 72751 control box would be what is called for. Low cost reliable and makes the operator set the signals by pushing a button . I have used them with no problems . Tex


I bought two Viessmann 4011 home signals from Scograil locally. I added a new SwitchPilot box (as my current one only had one port left). I changed the SwitchPilot over to K84 mode. I now have both signals set up through my ECOS and I can change them as required by hand. Total cost £54 which is less than the price for one Marklin signal.


Sounds good. You can get a Marklin 74391 for about £18 which is much cheaper but no idea what the Viessmann does.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#16 Posted : 14 November 2019 15:08:25(UTC)
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LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I agree that signals with decoders are expensive but is does look good to have them changing after the train leaves your yard. On the other hand manual control in my view means we are doing something with our layouts and not just standing watching after clicking a mouse. The 74 series from Marklin look to be OK.


I got into this discussion a bit late , but think that Marklin 74391 start up signals with a 72751 control box would be what is called for. Low cost reliable and makes the operator set the signals by pushing a button . I have used them with no problems . Tex


I bought two Viessmann 4011 home signals from Scograil locally. I added a new SwitchPilot box (as my current one only had one port left). I changed the SwitchPilot over to K84 mode. I now have both signals set up through my ECOS and I can change them as required by hand. Total cost £54 which is less than the price for one Marklin signal.


Sounds good. You can get a Marklin 74391 for about £18 which is much cheaper but no idea what the Viessmann does.


Well, the 74391 (20.69 euros on Lippe) is a plain signal with no control so you have to buy either the Marklin manual box 72751 (22.49 euros) orbuy a SwitchPilot as I did. I paid £12 each for my Viessmann signals and they work perfectly. They would also work with the Marklin manual box as they are really just two LEDs.
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AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
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