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Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 16 August 2019 23:57:38(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hi everyone Cool

I have to send 3 M84 (60841) back to Mike's house.

I have problems with: the signal does not light up, the change from red to green is not done, etc.... while the control led on the CS2 output flashes.

There's something inside that doesn't work.

They are new. Even if they were purchased several months ago, I consider them new because the operating life is short, at most 40 hours of operation.

But it's not just these decoders.

For 2-3 years, more and more often, I have had small problems ( 24624, some new locomotives newly purchased among others) that require returns from Mike. I could do without it.

And I'm not talking about the 74490 defective a few years ago . I've had a lot of them.

And I'm starting to wonder about Marklin quality.

The passion of the 3 rails Marklin is a passion that is seriously starting to become a hobby of rich people and these returns for check-ups are starting to weigh me down...me and especially the wallet.

So I wonder if there is a functional quality control department at Marklin, because if they have such a department like a cheap firm that I won't name, it must be the fiasco

Or else I have bad luck: I come across bad manufacturing runs.

In short, in conclusion with all these returns, the pleasure slowly fades away. And it's no longer fun at all

Good evening

Thewolf

Edited by user 19 August 2019 22:04:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline Carim  
#2 Posted : 17 August 2019 10:58:30(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 380
Location: London
I ordered the new ICE 3 (88715) on Sunday; it got to me on Wednesday, I put it on the track and the lights came on but it would not move. My investigation suggested that one of the contacts in the motor car was not working. So on Thursday, 88715 was back on its way to Germany. I wonder whethet I will see it again before the end of 2019! Crying Frustrating, but these things happen. Mellow Sad

Carim
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Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 17 August 2019 11:14:53(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,041
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
I ordered the new ICE 3 (88715) on Sunday; it got to me on Wednesday, I put it on the track and the lights came on but it would not move. My investigation suggested that one of the contacts in the motor car was not working. So on Thursday, 88715 was back on its way to Germany. I wonder whethet I will see it again before the end of 2019! Crying Frustrating, but these things happen. Mellow Sad

Carim


It may have just been a coach connection like you said, sometimes replugging them is all it takes but the other way to confirm depending on the configuration of the set is to bypass any coaches and simply couple the end units together and see if it runs.

In the Z version, are all the units seperately coupled or are they two pairs of units?

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Carim  
#4 Posted : 17 August 2019 11:50:54(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 380
Location: London
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
[

In the Z version, are all the units seperately coupled or are they two pairs of units?



They are all separate but the motor car has to be coupled to one of the end cars to get its electrical connection (4-car unit) - I will leave it to someone who understands electrical systems better than me to explain all that, especially if you were to expand to the full 8-car unit. The cars are all coupled by conducting couplers. I tried swapping couplers round but to no impact After trying to test each individual component, I found that if I applied current to the bottom of the coupler and directly to the motor it worked. If I applied current to both the top and bottom of the coupler, the motor did not work. After testing out many different combinations, my conclusion was that there was something wrong in the connector in the motor car that did not allow the electrical charge coming from the top of the coupling from the end unit to flow.

I suppose I could have ripped the motor car apart and maybe I could have fully worked out the problem and repaired it, or maybe not. But I am not an electrical expert, I am not familiar with how 88715 is put together and this was a brand new model! So I thought, better let Märklin sort it out.

Carim

p.s. the motor is housed in the restaurant car
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 17 August 2019 15:45:45(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
my guess is that they work just fine.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline jerdenberg  
#6 Posted : 17 August 2019 16:18:34(UTC)
jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
My latest experience with Märklin quality control was somewhat disappointing: In the spring I purchased the Challenger 3706 (39911) from my local dealer; when I put it on the track, it became apparent that the coupler between loc and tender was broken — as the machine had been secured to the base with 3 screws, and the dealer assured my they had not touched the model since they received it, the logical conclusion was that the model had been shipped with a broken coupler; either quality control had failed, or the person securing the model to the base afterwards handled the model carelessly.

Indeed, upon return to Märklin the damage was repaired under guarantee, so when I received it back after 2 months, I expectantly put it on the track, only to experience a derailment immediately in the first curve. I checked in several other curves, with consistent derailments. Somewhat frustrated, I took it back to the dealer. Sure enough, the model derailed immediately in the first curve of the demo layout at the dealer. He asked if it was OK for him to check the problem, hoping to solve it and thereby avoiding another return to Märklin.

In the end, he found that the derailment was caused by erroneous routing of the wiring between tender and loc; with that corrected, the loc ran perfectly. This indicates that, after the repair of the broken coupler, no inspection, or a very superficial one, was performed of the running characteristics of the model.

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline Joe Meiring  
#7 Posted : 17 August 2019 16:48:17(UTC)
Joe Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 63
Location: Fish Hoek, Cape Town
Originally Posted by: jerdenberg Go to Quoted Post
My latest experience with Märklin quality control was somewhat disappointing: In the spring I purchased the Challenger 3706 (39911) from my local dealer; when I put it on the track, it became apparent that the coupler between loc and tender was broken — as the machine had been secured to the base with 3 screws, and the dealer assured my they had not touched the model since they received it, the logical conclusion was that the model had been shipped with a broken coupler; either quality control had failed, or the person securing the model to the base afterwards handled the model carelessly.

Indeed, upon return to Märklin the damage was repaired under guarantee, so when I received it back after 2 months, I expectantly put it on the track, only to experience a derailment immediately in the first curve. I checked in several other curves, with consistent derailments. Somewhat frustrated, I took it back to the dealer. Sure enough, the model derailed immediately in the first curve of the demo layout at the dealer. He asked if it was OK for him to check the problem, hoping to solve it and thereby avoiding another return to Märklin.

In the end, he found that the derailment was caused by erroneous routing of the wiring between tender and loc; with that corrected, the loc ran perfectly. This indicates that, after the repair of the broken coupler, no inspection, or a very superficial one, was performed of the running characteristics of the model.

Jeroen

.....rather sad....and frustrating.....Sad

Medium digital C track layout with MS2: When I grow up I want to be a steam engine driver....
Offline HO Collector  
#8 Posted : 17 August 2019 16:50:53(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 96
Location: Just north of London
Guys

Quality Control costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I am a Q.C inspector in the company that I work for, we inspect 100% of our work, that means each and every job (this week I failed 2 out of 20 due to minor issues), most companies just sample, even Mil. Spec. is sample based.

In aviation where everything is traced, logged and inspected there are major failures as recently as the 737MAX. So even if 5% of Marklin locos are with issues no were life lost and no damage done, only a bit of inconvenience and frustration. The world is not perfect, we are all human and we all make mistakes, we forgive ourselves but ready to hang the other guy.
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Offline Joe Meiring  
#9 Posted : 17 August 2019 16:55:27(UTC)
Joe Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 63
Location: Fish Hoek, Cape Town
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone Cool

"........The passion of the 3 rails Marklin is a passion that is seriously starting to become a hobby of rich people and these returns for check-ups are starting to weigh me down...me and especially the wallet.

So I wonder if there is a functional quality control department at Marklin, because if they have such a department like a cheap firm that I won't name, it must be the fiasco

Or else I have bad luck: I come across bad manufacturing runs.

In short, in conclusion with all these returns, the pleasure slowly fades away. And it's no longer fun at all

Good evening

The wolf"


....seems nothing much has changed since I stopped buying new M Locos a few years ago...same old...same old...
Joe


Medium digital C track layout with MS2: When I grow up I want to be a steam engine driver....
Offline jerdenberg  
#10 Posted : 18 August 2019 09:48:05(UTC)
jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Originally Posted by: HO Collector Go to Quoted Post
Guys

Quality Control costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I am a Q.C inspector in the company that I work for, we inspect 100% of our work, that means each and every job (this week I failed 2 out of 20 due to minor issues), most companies just sample, even Mil. Spec. is sample based.

In aviation where everything is traced, logged and inspected there are major failures as recently as the 737MAX. So even if 5% of Marklin locos are with issues no were life lost and no damage done, only a bit of inconvenience and frustration. The world is not perfect, we are all human and we all make mistakes, we forgive ourselves but ready to hang the other guy.


If a model company (Märklin in this case) pretends that every loc is given a short test run before shipping, it should not be possible for a loc to arrive with a broken coupler (which precludes any run). Even accepting that in reality not every loc is tested, and the broken coupler is just an unfortunate event, I think it is a little stupid to repair the coupler (threading the wiring wrongly in the process) and then not making sure that the loc runs fine.

The example of the 737MAX is somewhat painful in this respect, with all the questions that have emerged about the design process of that plane.

Jeroen

Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 18 August 2019 10:55:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,497
Location: DE-NW
Märklin decided that dealers are part of the quality control chain.
The dealers decided that customers are part of the quality control chain.

You can see the same level of quality on all stages and in all of their products. This starts with the many typos in the new items brochure as customers are part of the proof-reading chain.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline David Dewar  
#12 Posted : 18 August 2019 11:34:12(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,713
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Märklin decided that dealers are part of the quality control chain.
The dealers decided that customers are part of the quality control chain.

You can see the same level of quality on all stages and in all of their products. This starts with the many typos in the new items brochure as customers are part of the proof-reading chain.


Many years ago I had a local dealer who checked every loco to ensure everything was working before selling. Most now just pick a box off a shelve and hand it to you and pocket any profit. The dealer also had a person who could do repairs if required and held spares in stock. When the owners retired the new owner did not do this and within a year or so the business closed.
If dealers advertised that they checked locos before despatch I expect they would increase their business. It does not take long to check a loco when it comes into stock and anybody in a shop could do it who understands what they are selling.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 18 August 2019 12:54:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 522
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Like you I had some problems in the past with Märklin not many though.
Some of the problems may be created during shipment or at the shop before the sale or inadvertently by the user during first use.
Not all the problems are coming from Mârklin but sometimes it is. I tumbled a few years ago on a series of bad Schienenbus Insider (the one with single axle trailer): the shop where I purchased it (Au Pullman in Paris) had to test 3 models before finding one that was OK. At the time the decoders quality was an issue.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
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Offline Thewolf  
#14 Posted : 18 August 2019 14:54:54(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

The dealers decided that customers are part of the quality control chain.

.


More precisely, our portfolio

Thewolf

Edited by user 19 August 2019 21:18:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline TEEWolf  
#15 Posted : 18 August 2019 23:34:56(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,866
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Märklin decided that dealers are part of the quality control chain.
The dealers decided that customers are part of the quality control chain.

You can see the same level of quality on all stages and in all of their products. This starts with the many typos in the new items brochure as customers are part of the proof-reading chain.


Many years ago I had a local dealer who checked every loco to ensure everything was working before selling. Most now just pick a box off a shelve and hand it to you and pocket any profit. The dealer also had a person who could do repairs if required and held spares in stock. When the owners retired the new owner did not do this and within a year or so the business closed.
If dealers advertised that they checked locos before despatch I expect they would increase their business. It does not take long to check a loco when it comes into stock and anybody in a shop could do it who understands what they are selling.


Well, but is this not called service instead quality control?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#16 Posted : 18 August 2019 23:48:20(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,866
Originally Posted by: HO Collector Go to Quoted Post
Guys

Quality Control costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I am a Q.C inspector in the company that I work for, we inspect 100% of our work, that means each and every job (this week I failed 2 out of 20 due to minor issues), most companies just sample, even Mil. Spec. is sample based.

In aviation where everything is traced, logged and inspected there are major failures as recently as the 737MAX. So even if 5% of Marklin locos are with issues no were life lost and no damage done, only a bit of inconvenience and frustration. The world is not perfect, we are all human and we all make mistakes, we forgive ourselves but ready to hang the other guy.


Agree with you except with the 737Max problems. They have nothing to do with qualty control. It is more the withhold of informations to the FAA as well as to the customers and pilots. It was and is a criminal offense by the management. No quality control would have changed this before.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline mike c  
#17 Posted : 19 August 2019 01:01:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,341
Location: Montreal, QC
I'm just going to put this out there...

Many years ago, the production and packaging was all done in the same place. Today, the motors come from one plant, the electronics from another, the metalwork (bodies) come from another plant and the final assembly, testing and warehousing/shipping occurs at Goeppingen.

It used to be that each model would run a few laps on the test track and be inspected prior to being boxed for sale.
Today, even though there may be some kind of inspection along the way, by the time the model is almost ready for distribution, it may be too late to send it back for correction for a minor flaw.
It used to be that these things were noticed right away and would not make it out of that department. It seems that today, a lot of items are shipped with the attitude that "hopefully the client won't notice" or "if 5-10% of the clients complain, we'll repair their models"... I remember visiting Maerklin in 1972 and seeing how there was a table with boxes of models and each one would be tested by an employee, then receive the little Maerklin tag (initialled) and be boxed for distribution.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Rwill  
#18 Posted : 19 August 2019 11:15:19(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 539
Location: England, London
I started my Marklin journey in 1985. At that time we had numerous dealers in the UK. I latched onto a guy in Mildenhall, Suffolk who traded as Bahnhof for Marklin and whenever possible I would call and collect any items ordered. He had his own strict protocol for quality control. New items from the factory would be left boxed and sealed until you arrived. We would then together unseal and inspect the goods. He would carry out a thorough visual inspection and then operate the lok on his test track. If a matter arose which required a tiny adjustment, he would ask permission and carry it out and then retest. If the matter were more complicated, he would take it on and return it to the factory -frustrating if you had waited a month or so for the order to arrive. He would go to the factory at least twice a year to collect his orders and combine his visit with commercial meetings and a visit to production. HE did not appear to go through the then UK distributor. At first he was a rather odd, abrupt character but as he got to know you he mellowed. He would happily convert analogue loks I had bought at swap meets etc to digital at very little cost after the parts. There were no forums etc at the time and local clubs thought that Marklin types were a bit odd so my man used to answer my dumb digital questions. He would have a bargain cupboard so every visit you would come away having spent at least twice as much as you envisaged. I don’t recall having any further warranty issues after purchase, any problems would be as a result of my clumsiness or the kids driving. After 10 years the M was boxed away in the loft and when it came back out five or so years ago everything had changed – all the UK dealers had gone- Marklin had gone bust for a while – and the internet had “arrived”. I often wonder if I lived in “a small town in Germany” with its own M dealer whether life would still be the same as I describe.
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#19 Posted : 19 August 2019 12:39:35(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 564
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
I latched onto a guy in Mildenhall, Suffolk who traded as Bahnhof for Marklin ...



Yes, Brian Lockwood - long gone, I’m afraid.

He championed Märklin in the UK for quite a few years in the 80s and 90s.

I never met him, but I bought all my original Digital stuff from him in 1985 or so. He was the most high-profile seller of Märklin in the days before Gaugemaster’s first stint as UK distributors.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline twmarklinfan  
#20 Posted : 19 August 2019 14:18:37(UTC)
twmarklinfan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 08/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
I latched onto a guy in Mildenhall, Suffolk who traded as Bahnhof for Marklin ...



Yes, Brian Lockwood - long gone, I’m afraid.

He championed Märklin in the UK for quite a few years in the 80s and 90s.

I never met him, but I bought all my original Digital stuff from him in 1985 or so. He was the most high-profile seller of Märklin in the days before Gaugemaster’s first stint as UK distributors.

Nigel


I also used Brian extensively, sometimes I would drive up there just so I could see and touch the model before I bought it. I guess at heart I am an old fashioned shopper.

We also used to holiday at Centre Parks nearby. The family always thought it was for them, but it was very close to Brian....
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Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 19 August 2019 16:06:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,415
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I bought loads of Marklin stuff from Bahnhof For Marklin! For example my Br103 and tinplate TEE coaches were from him. Until he went out of business I would always have an item or two on order from him.

I also met a dealer in Southampton around 2005, his name was Trevor I think. He had a small shop in St. Mary's and then he moved to a larger one in Portswood Road. He had loads of "New" old stuff. I bought a couple of Marklin sets from him and a few locos and wagons too. He was always very helpful. Eventually he retired and the business disappeared.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Rwill  
#22 Posted : 19 August 2019 17:20:30(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 539
Location: England, London
Fellow Brits – we are surely gonna get told off shortly for wandering so far off topic and its all my fault but Hey Ho who cares? Bahnhof for Marklin used to take a page or at least half a page every month in Continental Modeller for a very professional looking advert. You may have thought it was a very big warehouse or shop. The truth was somewhat different . It was a very modest bungalow with a gauge 1 test track in the small garden. And behind that was the massive US air force base of Mildenhall. I have worked out that my first visit was on Wednesday 16th April 1986. The smell of aviation fuel was truly overpowering and the whole airfield was filling up with planes returning from bombing Libya the previous night. My wife’s mum and dad (MIL & FIL) had recently moved to Bury St Edmunds and this was my excuse whilst visiting to just pop out for a while. It was also useful because I had big feet my size 13 was considered truly weird but in the shops alongside the base it was considered normal even small! This was very useful cos I could return with a box and when asked what I had bought would reply – just a pair of trainers.
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Offline Minok  
#23 Posted : 19 August 2019 20:58:52(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,017
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Märklin decided that dealers are part of the quality control chain.
The dealers decided that customers are part of the quality control chain.

You can see the same level of quality on all stages and in all of their products. This starts with the many typos in the new items brochure as customers are part of the proof-reading chain.


This is indeed the case - that is what a dealer is partly there for, to handle the front end/customer interface for issues. But that system only works for German customers (or maybe EU), where you have a dealer you can get to in an hour. Then you can test things at the store, and not accept them if they have an issue. But for the rest of the world, we have to take the product on faith its put together well, and it often has issues from one that got past QC or was damaged in shipment/handling/logistics between the Märklin factory somewhere and your layout room.

It may be a bit cheaper monetarily, and Märklin cannot know at the factory which of their dealers is shipping product to other countries, but it hurts the brand internationally when customers have to deal with this stuff. I imagine though, that we international customers are not significant enough of a fraction of the total customer base to drive Märklin to up their QC game.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Minok  
#24 Posted : 19 August 2019 21:01:40(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,017
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: jerdenberg Go to Quoted Post


The example of the 737MAX is somewhat painful in this respect, with all the questions that have emerged about the design process of that plane.

Jeroen



The 737max problem is a completely different problem that QC; that problem is an engineering design and certification and business decisions and operator training problem. None of the planes had a QC problem - they worked as designed. The design is just not as well developed as it turned out it need to be for how the air-frames are regulated/approved/deployed.

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Thewolf  
#25 Posted : 19 August 2019 22:03:42(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hi guys, Cool

I read your answers very carefully. The comment on the plane problem made me smile Smile , hearing that I said to myself: "If this continues, we will inevitably tailk about the problem of the many car recalls performed by all manufacturers.

If I believe your comments, I think you've never had any problems with Marklin accessories (decoder, signals, etc...).

I've had a lot of them. Either I have bad luck in my purchases (I come across a manufacturing defect ), or you are really lucky or you have problems, you take the risk of repairing it yourself.

I don't know, but it's absolutely inconceivable that I would have so many problems with these accessories

In short, on my side I regret not having kept an '' excell '' spreadsheet of all Marklin items of any kind since 2012, the year I returned to the Marklin world.

I am absolutely certain that the return shipping costs must be around $500 CAD, the price of a new locomotive, not to mention the repair costs, which are, however, quite insignificant with Mike.

In addition to the 3 M84 decoders, I sent back my two S-DEC LDT decoders to Germany, which adds $75 CAD to the already high postage bill.

Needless to say, the pleasure of the little train is affected by the sad reality of the impression that money is being thrown out the window.

Maybe I'll go to the little train on an Xbox console? I wonder if I wouldn't do better to move to the suburbs of Toronto, less than 25 km from Mike's store?

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline dominator  
#26 Posted : 19 August 2019 23:47:22(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 747
Location: Kerikeri
I remember a story about a man looking through the Hillman assembly plant in Porirua watching the Avengers being assembled. The quality controllers were making lists of all faults found in the finished vehicles. The man said to the controller that he would not mind having that vehicle he had just checked. "Why" said the checker. "Because you are going to fix all the problems aren't you". "No" said the checker, "my job is to ensure we don't make those mistakes on the next ones being assembled".
I guess they were expecting the faults to be fixed by their dealers in there pre-delivery checks.
It would be a nightmare if every unit sold by Marklin had to be checked and run by them before dispatch. They would save money by giving extra free items to the dealers to compensate for the odd problem they have to fix, and providing the spares to fix the problems free of charge. If Marklin can look after their dealers, then their dealers can look after their customers. More customers may result. Dealers could them test al items, and then when a customer decides to by, run the item in front of them before they buy.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#27 Posted : 21 August 2019 11:44:16(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


I have to send 3 M84 (60841) back to Mike's house.

I have problems with: the signal does not light up, the change from red to green is not done, etc.... while the control led on the CS2 output flashes.

Out of curiousity: Did you check the manual on page 14, where it says that you have to flip a switch when working with signals? Looking at the decoder from above, there is a switch in the upper right corner. It needs to be on. If it is not, the signals will not light up.

The switch should be on from the factory, but it was not always so.

Offline RayF  
#28 Posted : 21 August 2019 14:03:44(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,415
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
....

Dealers could them test al items, and then when a customer decides to by, run the item in front of them before they buy.

Dereck


I think this is the ideal way to buy, and whenever I buy from a physical shop I always ask for a test run. However, in recent years I have found increasingly that dealers do not have a test track, or do not have a digital controller available. In those cases they always say, "Try it at home and if it doesn't work bring it back", but of course this is not an option if I'm halfway across Europe on a holiday or work trip!

This also does not work for items bought on-line or by mail order. Even if tested at the shop before dispatch there are sometimes problems related to mis-handling of the parcel.

There is no easy solution I'm afraid, and ultimately one must either fix the problem at home or send it back with all the attendant risks.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Thewolf  
#29 Posted : 21 August 2019 15:07:42(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


I have to send 3 M84 (60841) back to Mike's house.

I have problems with: the signal does not light up, the change from red to green is not done, etc.... while the control led on the CS2 output flashes.

Out of curiousity: Did you check the manual on page 14, where it says that you have to flip a switch when working with signals? Looking at the decoder from above, there is a switch in the upper right corner. It needs to be on. If it is not, the signals will not light up.

The switch should be on from the factory, but it was not always so.



Yes I did

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PJMärklin  
#30 Posted : 21 August 2019 15:19:59(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,374
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
....

Dealers could them test al items...

Dereck


Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


... This also does not work for items bought on-line or by mail order...



Hello Ray and Dereck,

As you know Ray, I have bought from Lippe for some time now.
I have visited them in their Bremen store and seen their extensive test track. I do believe that they test every item that they send to me and I do sense that they have a caring nature. What more can they do? The vagaries of distance to Australia are at my own risk but this has not ever occurred, I believe, due to their fantastic packaging.
The only one time that I enquired with them about a problem I had with a locomotive, they replied that it ran fine on their test track before despatch -I subsequently found the problem was at my end.

Regards,

Philip

Edited by user 22 August 2019 00:54:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Drongo  
#31 Posted : 22 August 2019 08:55:16(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi all, this is my pet hate - returning faulty products to Marklin, especially the products straight out of the box. In plain simple English (and someone can translate it to German), there is no quality control. I've sent so much stuff back that it's no funny. I'm not buying any more Marklin locos and I'm avoiding their electronic products viz., turnout motors and decoders. I've just thrown out over 50 of them and I'm replacing them with Viessmann ones.
It's a pity to see such a great company slowly go down this deteriorating path, but this is their senior management decision and daddy won't be too happy about all this.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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Offline David Dewar  
#32 Posted : 22 August 2019 12:07:14(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,713
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Hi all, this is my pet hate - returning faulty products to Marklin, especially the products straight out of the box. In plain simple English (and someone can translate it to German), there is no quality control. I've sent so much stuff back that it's no funny. I'm not buying any more Marklin locos and I'm avoiding their electronic products viz., turnout motors and decoders. I've just thrown out over 50 of them and I'm replacing them with Viessmann ones.
It's a pity to see such a great company slowly go down this deteriorating path, but this is their senior management decision and daddy won't be too happy about all this.


Over forty years I have no loco faults and one turnout motor which I sent back to the dealer. I realise I might be lucky and I only buy one loco per year which has been already bought and tried on their layout by members on here and found to be OK. Turnout motors are cleaned from any debris etc once a year. CS2 is nine years old and is fine as is my new CS3. Almost forgot I did have a faulty signal.
I only use Marklin control equipment but do have some Piko and Brawa items which also work well other than Brawa coaches which can have problems.
To throw out 50 turnout motors and decoders is frankly amazing and you would be better giving up Marklin and trying another system altogether.
I find it interesting that some members here have very few problems while others appear to have many or just come on to say they don't like Marklin.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#33 Posted : 22 August 2019 15:25:34(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
In 55 years I have only had to send one item back to Märklin - that was in 1989 for a decoder that was not handling the smoke unit of the BR 50. This was more of a design limitation that a manufacturing problem.

I have also purchased numerous Viessmann products, never had to return any. I have 2, or perhaps 3, ports on turnout modules die - probably due to me overloading them.

I have bought many Preiser, Noch and Faller products, I had one part that was bent in a Faller kit once, I wrote to them and they sent me a replacement part right away.

I have been using an Intellibox from Uhlenbrock for about 20 years. The rotary encoders are beginning to wear out. Fabulous product.

Electronic circuit boards are typically tested at the board level during manufacturing, and after assembly. High tech items are 'fragile' in that, despite all the overcurrent protections that can be reasonably included in the design, incorrect connections are likely to destroy them. Usually things that 'don't work at all' turn out to be due to confusion as to how they work.

One has to expect a low problem rate, but it is clear that some people have way more problems than others, and I doubt that much of that can be attributed to 'luck' or poor quality control.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Thewolf  
#34 Posted : 22 August 2019 17:03:45(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
the good message will follow
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#35 Posted : 22 August 2019 17:16:07(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post


Usually things that 'don't work at all' turn out to be due to confusion as to how they work.

One has to expect a low problem rate, but it is clear that some people have way more problems than others, and I doubt that much of that can be attributed to 'luck' or poor quality control.




If I understand correctly, my many problems come from the fact that I am not competent or even smart enough to use Marklin products.

I'm sorry I'm not at your level.

It is true that I am only a small and poor retired chartered accountant and not a distinguished engineer.

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline kiwiAlan  
#36 Posted : 22 August 2019 17:51:43(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,459
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post

If I understand correctly, my many problems come from the fact that I am not competent or even smart enough to use Marklin products.


Umm, I don't think that is quite what he said.

I am a competent electronics engineer, and I consider myself competent with Marklin digital, but some manufacturers electronic instruments work in a way that does not suit me, while other manufacturers instruments do.

There are things about how items operate that can take some getting used to, while others seem to be quite intuitive. I find some of the ways the more recent Marklin digital products work not as intuitive to me as I would like, and it takes some thinking to translate in my mind the German methodology into how I think or expect it to work.

Unfortunately to help you without me being there requires a sometimes lengthy question and answer interchange so that I can glean the information I want from from answers you give to my questions, because your understanding of what I am asking is different to my understanding of what I think I am asking, and similarly your interpretation of your answer to my question is different to my interpretation of your answer. So sometimes the conversation needs to go back and forth a bit with the questions and answers being refined as we go.

Hang in there, and we will help as best we can. Sometimes it will take a while as we have a conversation, sometimes it will be straight forward. ThumpUp



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Offline HO Collector  
#37 Posted : 22 August 2019 23:00:46(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 96
Location: Just north of London
Many points that I would like to reply to but I will keep it short.

Agree, the 737Max was a poor example, could use Lycoming, Continental or Garmin issues. I know of a UK manufacturer that use to test any item before it was shipped, yet they have had high failure rate in the field, something that destroyed their reputation and I still know some that will not touch them.
I have never had a quality issue with Marklin probably because I am nearly 100% analogue and all my digital locos are early models.

As for the UK dealers I used to buy lots from Ernie in Chiswick and the importers that used to be based near Regent St. when they closed I moved to buy from Bahnhof for Marklin, used to drive their during the weekend, he had a very large "test" track (;-))
Offline mike c  
#38 Posted : 23 August 2019 02:21:05(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,341
Location: Montreal, QC
There is a big difference between a dealer having a set up where customers can "test" models before purchase and every function being tested before a model is packed and shipped.
I used to work at a company who did simultaneous translation set ups and one of the tasks was to clean, test and repackage the listening devices before their next use. Every set had to be cleaned, the ear buds replaced or sanitized and then the units had to be tested to ensure that the battery was charged and the unit would work the next time. If a unit was not charged or not clean, it went back to the person who was doing the cleaning or the charging and no problematic units would be sent to the next contract.

I remember as a 9 year old, taking the tour at Maerklin and I remember the room where there were a number of employees who sat at tables, with a crate containing models and a crate containing boxes and they would take a model from the crate, place it on a short oval run it around forwards, backwards, check to see that the lights worked and then pick it up and put it into a box and then put the box into another crate that I presume went to the warehouse for storage and shipment to dealers.

I found an older video of what looks to be a similar setup:


A more current version can be seen at 15:30 in this video:


Regards

Mike C
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Offline maico  
#39 Posted : 28 August 2019 15:00:53(UTC)
maico

United Kingdom   
Joined: 28/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: England, London
I don't seem to have much luck QC wise with my last 2 Marklin-Trix purchases.

I bought a box of new Trix C-track straights last week and it shorted my layout !
Found the offending section with my multimeter. Seems to be a design tolerance issue : a thin pillar in the plastic bed molding separates the stamped metal parts that holds the metal joiners. If they are attached even slightly out of line they will touch and short because the plastic pillar is so thin.

The previous month a bought a new Trix 22918 diesel Locomotive Br 218 from a German dealer. It didn't start moving on dc until 10v was applied and wasn't particularly fast. A surprisingly noisy runner. When it starting resonating at faster speeds like an angle grinder I lost faith and sent it back for a refund.
To replace it I bought a second hand Brawa BR216 8 pin dcc 1998-2002 for £60 off ebay. Also made of metal with metal gearboxes it glides around the track really smoothly at all speeds.

Here it is with a 1978 Fleischmann 103

_DSC0986.jpg
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