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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#1 Posted : 23 July 2019 16:00:51(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Hi everyone. Recently, I bought three Piko coaches to make a Push/Pull set for my Class 78 Lok.

UserPostedImage

I added a decoder to the driver coach and everything works fine for that. It is the 78 that I have the problem with.

Basically, it is a problem with the couplers (again!). Running it in both directions causes issues with derailments. My next step was to try the coaches with a V200. This was better but still has some issues. Finally, I tried it with my SBB 482 and everything works fine in both directions. Here are the differences.

Class 78

UserPostedImage

Class V200

UserPostedImage

Class 482

UserPostedImage

As you can see, the coupler shank gets longer and longer. Now, I can't run these coaches with an SBB Cargo lok so what would be a good replacement (with a similar coupler shank). If I can put a longer shank into the 78 then that might be worth trying. If not, can you suggest a good DB replacement for the 482?
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
Offline twmarklinfan  
#2 Posted : 23 July 2019 16:51:24(UTC)
twmarklinfan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 08/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 359
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, United Kingdom
Hi David,

Presume the coaches have NEM pockets and the standard Piko couplings. Have you tried replacing the Piko coupler with a Marklin one, you could take one off a Marklin coach to test, or replace the Marklin one on the loco with a Piko one.
Offline LongHairedDavid  
#3 Posted : 23 July 2019 17:32:43(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: twmarklinfan Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,

Presume the coaches have NEM pockets and the standard Piko couplings. Have you tried replacing the Piko coupler with a Marklin one, you could take one off a Marklin coach to test, or replace the Marklin one on the loco with a Piko one.


It's a case of the 482 has a much longer coupling. Given that she who must be obeyed has said, not in so many words, "sort it", I could buy another TRAXX loco, if they all have long couplers like the 482. Unless the Marklin couplers for the coaches are long ones, the 78 is still going to cause the Piko coach to derail just by hitting it on my curves.
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
Offline twmarklinfan  
#4 Posted : 23 July 2019 18:01:22(UTC)
twmarklinfan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 08/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 359
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, United Kingdom
Ah, that I am familiar with. I have a similar problem when running Brawa coaches on radius 1 curves. What happens is the knuckle of the Marklin close coupler rides higher than the flatter Piko coupling and will foul the buffers on the coach causing the coach to lift and then derail so if you change the Marklin coupler for the Piko type it should sort it
Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 23 July 2019 19:20:39(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone. Recently, I bought three Piko coaches to make a Push/Pull set for my Class 78 Lok.

I added a decoder to the driver coach and everything works fine for that. It is the 78 that I have the problem with.

Basically, it is a problem with the couplers (again!). Running it in both directions causes issues with derailments. My next step was to try the coaches with a V200. This was better but still has some issues. Finally, I tried it with my SBB 482 and everything works fine in both directions. Here are the differences.

As you can see, the coupler shank gets longer and longer. Now, I can't run these coaches with an SBB Cargo lok so what would be a good replacement (with a similar coupler shank). If I can put a longer shank into the 78 then that might be worth trying. If not, can you suggest a good DB replacement for the 482?


Have you ever tried this little coupler gauge (art #7001) before?

https://www.maerklin.de/...ts/details/article/7001/
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 23 July 2019 19:52:33(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I don't know whether the BR 78 was designed with a close coupling shaft or whether they just mounted a close coupler on a pivot.
The Re 482 has a coupler mounted on a pivot. The V200 I presume has a coupler screw mounted on the bogie.

The Maerklin coupler (7203 or similar) can snag on the buffer of coaches made by other brands.
If you want to use this train in push pull operation, I would recommend that you switch to couplers like Roco's Close Coupler, Fleischmann's Profi Coupler.
Another option would be to use Roco's universal coupler, which is similar in appearance to the Maerklin 7203. Compared to the regular Roco close coupler, the universal coupler is also compatible with the regular Maerklin hook and loop.

For my Swiss push-pull trains, I am using the Fleischmann Profi Close Couplings. The first coach (connected to the lok has a normal coupling on the side coupled to the lok if the lok has no mechanism).

With loks that have no mechanism and just a close coupling head, it can sometimes be problematic if the couplers do not allow for sufficient movement of the mechanism of the coach. Using the standard hook coupler on the lok or one with just the pin can allow for greater movement.

Regards

Mike C


Offline LongHairedDavid  
#7 Posted : 23 July 2019 21:45:08(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I don't know whether the BR 78 was designed with a close coupling shaft or whether they just mounted a close coupler on a pivot.
The Re 482 has a coupler mounted on a pivot. The V200 I presume has a coupler screw mounted on the bogie.

The Maerklin coupler (7203 or similar) can snag on the buffer of coaches made by other brands.
If you want to use this train in push pull operation, I would recommend that you switch to couplers like Roco's Close Coupler, Fleischmann's Profi Coupler.
Another option would be to use Roco's universal coupler, which is similar in appearance to the Maerklin 7203. Compared to the regular Roco close coupler, the universal coupler is also compatible with the regular Maerklin hook and loop.

For my Swiss push-pull trains, I am using the Fleischmann Profi Close Couplings. The first coach (connected to the lok has a normal coupling on the side coupled to the lok if the lok has no mechanism).

With loks that have no mechanism and just a close coupling head, it can sometimes be problematic if the couplers do not allow for sufficient movement of the mechanism of the coach. Using the standard hook coupler on the lok or one with just the pin can allow for greater movement.

Regards

Mike C




The 78 has fixed couplers built onto the bogie. I cant see how to change that. I have replaced the leading coupler on the front Piko coach with a Marklin Relex (all I have on hand) and the V200 now works fine, as does the 482. I want to keep the V 200 for fast freight and my Rheingold coaches so I need a recommendation for a DB TRAXXX type loco with the same bogie/ couplers as my 482 to run the push pull.
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 23 July 2019 23:38:24(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
In another thread I think I said trial and error when using non Marklin coaches etc is the only way as different couplers are required for various makes. Brawa I find difficult and decided just to run them with a Brawa loco. I have one set of Piko coaches which don't like radius one so I just run them on radius two or higher.
Coaches will come with their own couplers and by removing one from the end of the last coach and putting it on the loco sometimes works.

All you can do with the 78 is try different makes of coupler for the first coach and adjust them to the same height as that on the loco. I now just run the same loco with the same make of coaches where possible but mainly just use Marklin. Keep on trying different types though and you will eventually find something that works. All part of the hobby finding the ideal set up.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 24 July 2019 01:18:22(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
For those DB coaches, the ideal lok would probably be a diesel 212 or 216/218 or maybe an E 139 or similar.
As far as the couplers. Try putting a 7203 or Roco Universal Coupler on the end of the car connected to the locomotive and see if that works better.

Can you post a photo of the underside of the Piko coaches (coupler and bogie).

Regards

Mike C
Offline LongHairedDavid  
#10 Posted : 25 July 2019 21:41:45(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
For those DB coaches, the ideal lok would probably be a diesel 212 or 216/218 or maybe an E 139 or similar.
As far as the couplers. Try putting a 7203 or Roco Universal Coupler on the end of the car connected to the locomotive and see if that works better.

Can you post a photo of the underside of the Piko coaches (coupler and bogie).

Regards

Mike C


Thank you everybody for your helpful comments. The problem is nicely resolved to my satisfaction. I have dropped the idea of running these coaches with the Class 78 as, in reverse, the body dislodges the first coach on my short radius curves. As I have said, both the SBB 482 and the DB V200 work fine. I had a bit of an issue with the coach slider coming adrift tonight but that is now sorted. I have found that the Piko couplers were an issue so I have replaced all the coach couplers with Maerklin ones. Here is a video of the V200 pushing the two coaches at a decent speed around my narrow curves.



One thing obvious is that the coaches need some lights and passengers. I am still playing with feeding an LED strip from the slider but I will come back to that in a new thread.

I now have a Class 141 coming which, after some testing, will become my go-to Lok.
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by LongHairedDavid
Offline LongHairedDavid  
#11 Posted : 27 July 2019 14:44:36(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post


I now have a Class 141 coming which, after some testing, will become my go-to Lok.


It has arrived and works perfectly. Here is a video with two coaches. I still have to test it with my full set of three.

Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by LongHairedDavid
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