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Offline yossix  
#1 Posted : 07 July 2019 19:55:52(UTC)
yossix

Israel   
Joined: 07/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Tel Aviv
hi.
can you please direct me how can i control 2 trains (HO) so there will be an automatic control. i mean that one train stay at the station one trail.the second comes on the second rail and automatically stops and then the first one start to move and so on.
you can see here what do i mean here
thank you
Offline cookee_nz  
#2 Posted : 07 July 2019 20:27:06(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,016
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: yossix Go to Quoted Post
hi.
can you please direct me how can i control 2 trains (HO) so there will be an automatic control. i mean that one train stay at the station one trail.the second comes on the second rail and automatically stops and then the first one start to move and so on.
you can see here what do i mean here
thank you


Do you have Analogue, or Digital?

Either way, you need to be able to detect the arrival of each train with sensor.

The sensor sets the other train to go and vice-versa.

If the system is analogue you can use contact tracks, or circuit tracks, wired to a signal or relay, and the signal also controls a short section of 'dead track'. In other words the short section of track say 2-3 lengths, is only powered when the signal is green. If the signal is red, there is no power.

And you also need to be able to set the signal back to red when the train has left the station.

If the system is digital, it will depend what controller you have for the best solution. The wiring booklets have very good diagrams about how to do this.

We need more detail about what you have to give you the best advice otherwise you may get a suggestion not relevant to your equipment.

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline yossix  
#3 Posted : 07 July 2019 21:06:18(UTC)
yossix

Israel   
Joined: 07/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Tel Aviv
hi
thanks for your reply.
i have a digital set with a mobile station (60657) and Noch Rosenheim layout (81600)
Offline hxmiesa  
#4 Posted : 08 July 2019 09:30:55(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Do you have Analogue, or Digital?
If the system is analogue you can use contact tracks, or circuit tracks, wired to a signal or relay, and the signal also controls a short section of 'dead track'. In other words the short section of track say 2-3 lengths, is only powered when the signal is green. If the signal is red, there is no power.
And you also need to be able to set the signal back to red when the train has left the station.

If the system is digital, it will depend what controller you have for the best solution. The wiring booklets have very good diagrams about how to do this.

The above described method will work equally for analogue and digital.
I understand that when you cut the track power to a digital loco, it will stop (Doh!), and that it will continue again with the last speed-setting once power is restored to the track(?)

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 08 July 2019 10:32:56(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,498
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I have produced very reliable opto couplers which can be place between sleepers of a K-track. its made from electronic components and works in conjunction with a braking module (also produced myself = identical to a Märklin braking module)

it works like this the loco goes over the opto coupler and is triggered bu the slider. the optocoupler pulse activates track 2 while the train runs into track 1 (red signal), we have modified our system by placing the opto coupler at the beginning of the siding and another one close to the signal (which operates the turnout), there is another opto coupler when the track converges into one sending the signal to red again.
I use opto couplers , they are very reliable but only works one way.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 08 July 2019 13:07:35(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,016
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Do you have Analogue, or Digital?
If the system is analogue you can use contact tracks, or circuit tracks, wired to a signal or relay, and the signal also controls a short section of 'dead track'. In other words the short section of track say 2-3 lengths, is only powered when the signal is green. If the signal is red, there is no power.
And you also need to be able to set the signal back to red when the train has left the station.

If the system is digital, it will depend what controller you have for the best solution. The wiring booklets have very good diagrams about how to do this.

The above described method will work equally for analogue and digital.
I understand that when you cut the track power to a digital loco, it will stop (Doh!), and that it will continue again with the last speed-setting once power is restored to the track(?)



Yes this is correct - removing any power, analogue or digital will stop the Loco (Doh!). BigGrin Very suddenly sometimes, and then the Preiserlings spill their Chardonnay.

My question regarding what system was more along the same lines that you commented about - ie that if he had a Central Station for example, or maybe another system such as Intellibox, etc then there could be fully digital route control options that he may wish to explore.

But for an initial start the minimum I would recommend would be two circuit tracks per station line (one for arrival and one for departure), and one signal for each.

If you didn't want signals then just two relays.

There are of course other methods, but for the sake of this discussion I'm sticking with off-the-shelf Marklin items.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 08 July 2019 13:13:18(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,016
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: yossix Go to Quoted Post
hi
thanks for your reply.
i have a digital set with a mobile station (60657) and Noch Rosenheim layout (81600)


Ok, nice layout. And it can be easily expanded on either side.

Do you have any special tracks (circuit / contact) and any Signals yet?

https://www.noch.com/en/...out-rosenheim-81600.html
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline yossix  
#8 Posted : 08 July 2019 18:10:57(UTC)
yossix

Israel   
Joined: 07/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Tel Aviv
i'll buy 2 X marklin 76491 just like in the you tube link
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#9 Posted : 08 July 2019 19:07:06(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 714
Location: Täby
Originally Posted by: yossix Go to Quoted Post
i'll buy 2 X marklin 76491 just like in the you tube link


These signals are digital and can’t be controlled automatically by the Mobile Station or by contact tracks. You can control them with Mobile Station or with a special box with pushbuttons, but not automatically. With a Central Station it’s possible. You could also choose another kind of signal that can be controlled by contact or switching tracks.


K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline yossix  
#10 Posted : 08 July 2019 19:28:50(UTC)
yossix

Israel   
Joined: 07/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Tel Aviv
o.k.
so what do i have to buy and what connections do i have to make ?
Offline gwolski  
#11 Posted : 09 July 2019 21:48:36(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: yossix Go to Quoted Post
o.k.
so what do i have to buy and what connections do i have to make ?


Old school solution time since digital solutions really won't work here. You'll need a couple of analog, power controlling signals along with a push button controller and 4 contact/circuit/reed triggers.

This isn't a recipe solution but highlights the actions and tools I have used. Your implementation will vary based on your specific track layout. It's also not the only way to do this - it's just one way. I'm sure there are plenty of changes/optimizations that can be applied depending... :)

Signal S1 controls power to track 1, same for Signal S2. Initial condition - both are red via push buttons. Both tracks have an entry trigger and and exit trigger (I used circuit tracks in a small layout years ago to do just this). Train 1 is parked on track 1 and train 2 on track 2.

Push button to switch S1 to green = train 1 departs track 1 and activates exit trigger 1 which turns S1 back to red.
When train 1 arrives, it activates entry trigger 1 which turns S2 green = train 2 departs track, train 1 stops in no power zone.
Train 2 activates exit trigger 2 which sets S2 back to red. When train 2 arrives, it activates entry trigger 2 which sets S1 to green = train 1 departs, and train 2 stops... and so on.

I don't have the relevant Marklin part numbers handy other than the circuit track 24994 and it's curved cousins 24194 and 24294. I used Viessmann signals with a color light control box for the signals, but you can peruse the Marklin signals for the appropriate parts. EDIT: you do have to be careful with placement of the triggers to ensure they are in a powered track section. No power = no signal generated. Same with track power - your train will stop when the slider hits the unpowered section, so plan accordingly!

Please keep us posted!

FINAL EDIT - this all assumes your digital locos will stop and restart correctly when powered is yanked then restored. No lights/sounds/functions without power. Just a thought.

Gene
Gene Wolski
Offline Minok  
#12 Posted : 10 July 2019 01:18:53(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,000
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
There are Märklin digital solutions that would do that - but it requires you would have to change the state of the controlling signal manually on the Mobile Station, and the trains then go again (Märklin has a German language video how to wire that up with an M83 or mfx Signal + a braking module ( 72442 ) .

The automatic programming, as far as I know, requires the automation be in the controller, so a Central Station, Computer, etc is needed to automate that. A Mobile Station doesn't have that capability.

The problem is that the detection of the arrival of a locomotive, needs to then trigger the release of the other signal/track automatically, without your doing anything. I can imagine there would be an electronics way of wiring things up so that a detection track on one station track, would trigger the release of the other station tracks 'braking module' to let that train proceed again, but I'm not sure how that would be done. Hopefully the advice from others will fill in the gap.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline mvd71  
#13 Posted : 10 July 2019 06:27:06(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,040
Location: Auckland,
Can be done using the old analogue signals and contact tracks in the digital environment. The analogue block control simply switches the digital signal and power from a section of track as opposed to switching analogue power. One of the guys here can probably supply a digital copy of the old signal handbook that would show how.
Offline gwolski  
#14 Posted : 10 July 2019 17:37:35(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: Central Virginia
I found my references for this - Marklin Magazine issue 5.2004 starting on page 42. This setup used the Uhlenbrock 42800 dual timer module to provide some adjustable delays in the trains starting. Trains were running opposed on a single track loop with parallel sidings.



Cheers!

Gene
Gene Wolski
Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 10 July 2019 21:15:13(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,000
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Pin Nuckel does a basic solution using analog control and reed switches and magnets to build a Christmas tree loop with two alternating trains in a series of videos (in German), which could be used if you don't need digital control and just want two specific trains to alternate.

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline mvd71  
#16 Posted : 11 July 2019 01:01:20(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,040
Location: Auckland,
Please try the link link below, may help with signal control

http://www.marklin.org.n...e/pdfs/signal_manual.pdf
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline gwolski  
#17 Posted : 11 July 2019 01:45:10(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: Central Virginia
Great resource - thanks for posting. Like I said, old school solution since the MS is a pretty basic digital controller. At least it does switch accessory decoders - IIRC my original MS didn't. Use circuit tracks to control power routing signals for your layout. All the basics are laid out in the signal manual.

FYI - I implemented the switching from the Marklin Magazine article without the dual timers. I wasn't interested in any time delays - just simple on/off when trains entered their respective tracks. Just set a lower throttle speed to look less twitchy.

Cheers!

Gene
Gene Wolski
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