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Offline scissorsnm  
#1 Posted : 29 June 2019 03:31:35(UTC)
scissorsnm

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Albuquerque
JUST A SIMPLE QUESTION.. Playing with some old M track and another older layout and can't get a 6040 keyboard and K83 to work.

I have the 6040 connected on the left side of the 6021. When I push them together the led lights on the 6040 go on but that combination shuts down the 6021.... not able to even run the locos. Unhook the 6040 from the 6021 and everything works as usual. I am wondering now if using the M track has any bearing on my problems. I figured Track was track be it M K or C and if a component works on one it should work on all.
What say you folks.

JimConfused


Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 29 June 2019 04:46:03(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,097
all types of tracks are electrically identical.
i.e. M track is not a problem
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 29 June 2019 07:45:09(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,718
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
M track is not a problem


Just make sure you remove any noise suppression capacitors that are soldered into M feeder tracks as these interfere with the digital signal.
Offline mvd71  
#4 Posted : 29 June 2019 08:26:47(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,047
Location: Auckland,
Is the 6021 already powered on when you plug in the keyboard? It needs to be off when you plug in.

M track is no problem.
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 29 June 2019 08:29:56(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,074
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: scissorsnm Go to Quoted Post
JUST A SIMPLE QUESTION.. Playing with some old M track and another older layout and can't get a 6040 keyboard and K83 to work.

I have the 6040 connected on the left side of the 6021. When I push them together the led lights on the 6040 go on but that combination shuts down the 6021.... not able to even run the locos. Unhook the 6040 from the 6021 and everything works as usual. I am wondering now if using the M track has any bearing on my problems. I figured Track was track be it M K or C and if a component works on one it should work on all.
What say you folks.

JimConfused




Firstly, NEVER connect devices by simply 'hot-plugging' them, that won't work.

When the 6021 is first powered on / initialised, one of the first things it does is check the Bus for attached devices and allocates resources, addresses etc. If a device is not present at that time, it won't be registered.

1: Shut everything down
2: Disconnect the track
3: Connect the Keyboard to the 6021 (they should work together)
4: Power it back on. Does it all power up correctly and remain on?

If No, what power source are you using? ie what is the VA rating of the Trafo? If the Trafo is ok then the 6040 Keyboard may be defective.

If Yes, power it off again, connect the track and try again. Does it remain on?, if yes then test operation.

If it works, all good, but if it fails to come on or stay on, it may link back to the power source being under-rated.

Without knowing more about your layout, how large, how many devices such as Locos, Coaches with Lighting, Turnouts (with lights), Decoders etc it's hard to be more specific but I'd suggest you should be using a 52VA trafo as a minimum.

Hope this helps

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 29 June 2019 08:30:48(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,074
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Is the 6021 already powered on when you plug in the keyboard? It needs to be off when you plug in.

M track is no problem.


SNAP !! :-)

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline scissorsnm  
#7 Posted : 29 June 2019 15:16:45(UTC)
scissorsnm

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Albuquerque
Thanks Cookee,

Did all you suggested and still no go. However, the power as you suggested may be the problem. I'm using a 42VA Marklin trafo. I have one of those old Maklin trafos (10VA) for a booster but I don't think I would have the expertise to hook it up without creating more problems. Maybe purchase a Booster?

Jim
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#8 Posted : 29 June 2019 18:30:30(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 715
Location: Täby
Originally Posted by: scissorsnm Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Cookee,

Did all you suggested and still no go. However, the power as you suggested may be the problem. I'm using a 42VA Marklin trafo. I have one of those old Maklin trafos (10VA) for a booster but I don't think I would have the expertise to hook it up without creating more problems. Maybe purchase a Booster?

Jim


I have successfully used a 6021 & 6040 combo powered by a 32 VA trafo. So 42 VA be enough. Do not use a booster!

K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline PMPeter  
#9 Posted : 29 June 2019 19:28:01(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 982
Location: Port Moody, BC
If I recall correctly when I had a similar 6021 and 6040 setup, before I got my CS2, there are dip switches on the back of the 6021 that need to be correctly set depending on the operation mode. This might be what is causing you the problem, so it would be worthwhile to check what setting you have compared to what setting it should be.

Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PMPeter
Offline amartinezv  
#10 Posted : 29 June 2019 20:04:29(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 251
Location: Madrid,

Hello, as you've already been told, the M track is not a problem, neither is the trafo.

The switches in the 6021 have nothing to do with the 6040 keyboard. Also, you have to plug in all the devices and then turn on the system, connecting devices with the system on is not a good idea.

But, the 6040 keyboard also has switches to indicate which keyboard it is, in your case they should indicate keyboard #1. If you don't know how to configure this say so and I'll tell you.

On the other hand, to me, in the keyboard, I have 2, sometimes they have failed me the welds of the switches and I have had to retouch them in spite of having bought them new.

It could be that the keyboard is defective.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline mvd71  
#11 Posted : 29 June 2019 22:39:31(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,047
Location: Auckland,
Hi Jim,

It does sound like there is something wrong with the keyboard if you still have the same problem after connecting with power off.

As said in other posts, the 42va power supply is not the problem. The dip switch settings on the keyboard have no effect on the ability to control the locos with the 6021. The dip switches on the 6021 are to enable the use of motorola1, Motorola 2, or universal formats (Motorola 1+2).

I would suggest trying to find someone nearby with a 6021 who can test your keyboard with their controller.

Cheers....

Mike
Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 29 June 2019 22:51:40(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,244
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: scissorsnm Go to Quoted Post
.... When I push them together the led lights on the 6040 go on but that combination shuts down the 6021.... not able to even run the locos. Unhook the 6040 from the 6021 and everything works as usual. ...


If I understand the grammar correctly, I would direct you to check the connector for bent pins.

While power may be a layout issue, even the smallest Marklin transformer has enough power to support a 6021 and 6040 and still power a loco.


FWIW.

About 20 years ago (Yes 1999 ish) there was a flurry of discussions about being able to dynamically change the addressing range of a 6040.
- In the first instance , the DIP switches could be changed, however a button was added to reset the "6040" (not the 6021) to have IT reread the switches (usually done when it powered on).
- of course leaning over the back and playing with the DIP switches was not optimal and one solution was to add a "thumbwheel" ("0-7" or , if you could find them and needed the 129 to 256 range "0-F"). This would be altered and the reset button pushed to set the new address range.

However, just like the 6021, the 6040 had a couple of "firmware" and internal design versions.
About the time Marklin offered a "6040x1 + 4x6083" package it was noted that the reset button was no longer needed , i.e. just setting the switches was sufficient.
Peter
Offline scissorsnm  
#13 Posted : 29 June 2019 22:54:15(UTC)
scissorsnm

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Albuquerque
6021 dip switch set number 2 on rest off. Keyboard dip switch set #1 on.


No capacitors under the feeder track.

Trains all run fine when no keyboard hooked or K 83 hooked up. That particular keyboard worked fine when last used with another layout.
However I think that may be the culprit. Or the K83 somehow. The K83 gets juice in and juice in and juice out but does have one defective or blown out port #4
Offline scissorsnm  
#14 Posted : 29 June 2019 23:25:13(UTC)
scissorsnm

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Albuquerque
Another 6021 Controller tried. No difference
Offline mvd71  
#15 Posted : 29 June 2019 23:38:25(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,047
Location: Auckland,
And no improvement if you remove the 6083 from the circuit?

As Clapcott suggested, check for bent pins on the connection between the keyboard and 6021.

If that doesn't work, do you have access to another keyboard?

Cheers...

Mike
Offline scissorsnm  
#16 Posted : 30 June 2019 01:04:55(UTC)
scissorsnm

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Albuquerque
I do not have another keyboard to use. I have looked at the pins and they all look fine to me.

Thanks for all your help guys. I reckon I'l be in the market for another keyboard.
Offline Webmaster  
#17 Posted : 05 July 2019 18:36:10(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,846
No bent pins in the connectors?
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline scissorsnm  
#18 Posted : 06 July 2019 05:09:14(UTC)
scissorsnm

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Albuquerque
Thanks to all that helped. Update on all, I received a used(refurbished) 6040 purchased on E-Bay. Works fine so far,fingers crossed.

Jim
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