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Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 15 June 2019 04:40:29(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hi guysCool

The little worries of the TJDs on the way are seriously starting to get on my nerves.

I know I use a lot of it but my layout requires it and that's the layout I want.

I bought 3 new 24624s and already I have problems: the mechanism is not reliable and the TJD does not execute 100% of the order received.

Let me give an example: the train comes in from one side and has to go out to the right. The first part of the TJD is placed correctly, the second part is placed for the straight line, because the second part has not done its job.

At the moment it's not a big deal because I manually readjust the correct position but next year I'm going to work in automation with Itrain. What will be the result of these bad behaviors of the fucking TJD marklin? Disaster, disaster and equipment breakage! I am afraid so !!Cursing Crying Angry

In reality, track C is starting to annoy me because there are not only TJD problems, there is another problem: the failure of the manufacturing of contact rails.

On 10 tracks of which I cut the bridge (O) to make my feedbacks, I succeed 6. I know I can still use the waste: an insulated rail does not prevent the loco from running.

I also know that some people will tell me that they can make as many as they want, it's 100% success. To which I reply: of course, it is certain, but in my country, it was said that boasters already existed before Methuselah.

In conclusion, I have to make a decision. Next year we're moving, our last one (we hope), it'll be my last layout and I want it to work more than 100% and I don't want any nonsense to bother me.

One thing is certain: in this new layout, there will be a lot of TJDs (it will be the same as the one now) and I will use contact rails for axle detection as now and I don't want to spend a fortune on tracks!

So I'm thinking about track K. I don't know what it is. I've never used it before. I don't even know how it works. All I know is this: a lot of you use it.

I would like to receive information on this K-track if possible, especially regarding the TJD, the contacts by axle detection.

Finally, I suppose that the 74491 engines are not used in the K track, that the 74461-74462 decoders are not used either. Am I mistaken?

In short, would track K be more reliable than track C for these problems ( TJD and detection rails)?

Quite frankly, I say that Marklin has become so expensive that the customer is entitled to have very high requirements both in terms of rolling stock and accessories.

I also say that problems such as those of the TJD should not exist or at least provide a definitive and radical solution to the problem when it arises.

I don't want an motor 74491 to fail me because all the Marklin equipment will be for garbages, cs2, locos and wagons included!

I'm almost that far along!

Good night !!

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline cookee_nz  
#2 Posted : 15 June 2019 05:07:07(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,016
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
The little worries of the TJDs on the way are seriously starting to get on my nerves.


Hi Serge,

First thing I would say is that with K-track, your track-laying must be to a very high standard if you want trouble-free running, but even then, it is not guaranteed. There are just too many unknown factors that can influence the operation.

C-Track, and even the older M-track is reasonably rigid, however K-track has much more flexibility and so it is easy to introduce a slight 'twist' if the roadbed is not perfectly flat, imagine if you will a double-slip placed on a nice flat surface. Now, lift just one corner, perhaps by just the thickness of a credit-card - now you have a slight twist and this could easily be felt through to the mechanism for the blades and frogs and it takes hardly any distortion for them to start sticking.

Raise one of the other corners and the problem is even worse.

So this is one of the first things to be sure to avoid. When you are building a layout new, everything seems nice and even, but when you start adding scenery, buildings, adjusting track to line up neatly you get very small distortions added and if there is anywhere that they will go wrong, you can bet it will be at turnouts and particularly at double-slips.

If you then add ballast around your turnouts, not only do you have the risk of contamination getting into the mechanism, but you also make it a lot harder to remove the section if you do need to repair or replace it.

So personally, I feel that if you are having problems with C-Track, you run the risk of even more problems with K, unless you take particular care.

I don't know if this helps you or not?

For me, I quite like K-track, and I already have some of it that I intend to use, but I do also like the look and simplicity of C-Track.

BigGrin

Edited by moderator 15 June 2019 12:48:19(UTC)  | Reason: Edited to not include the entire first post, as we don't need to read it twice!

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Ranjit  
#3 Posted : 15 June 2019 05:31:41(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,888
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Hi Serge...

I am a K-track user, and I like the look and feel of K-tracks. I started with M-track a very long time ago, but I am moving over to K-track entirely. Like Stephen has said, K-track will require "particular care and maintenance", as it is more flimsy than M or C-track. However, K-track can be made to look very prototypical with some good hand work. Go for it, man!

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline applor  
#4 Posted : 15 June 2019 05:34:41(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,370
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Sorry but what are TJD's you refer to?

K track does have its problems of which all can be fixed. I have had no issues regarding derailments with mixed brands too but all my rolling stock are rather modern (90's onward only).

Detection rails are really easy with K. K track is also easy to fit with servos which eliminates coil problems, though I have had issues with the tongue mechanisms at times (I think permanently fixed now)
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline Thewolf  
#5 Posted : 15 June 2019 05:38:08(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

Hi Serge,
.......


Hi Stephen Cool

Thank you for your reply very appreciated.

It is true that it is simple with the c-track.

But I'm tired of all these little problems... that shouldn't exist given the price Marklin's asking for

Serge

Edited by moderator 15 June 2019 12:51:55(UTC)  | Reason: Edited to not include Cookee's entire post, as we don't need to read it twice!

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#6 Posted : 15 June 2019 05:48:14(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Sorry but what are TJD's you refer to?

K track does have its problems of which all can be fixed. I have had no issues regarding derailments with mixed brands too but all my rolling stock are rather modern (90's onward only).

Detection rails are really easy with K. K track is also easy to fit with servos which eliminates coil problems, though I have had issues with the tongue mechanisms at times (I think permanently fixed now)


Hi applor Cool

TJD is the French abbreviation for Double Slip Switch (24624)

Sorry but my first language is French and it's normal that from time to time I make a little mistake like this TJD.

Anyway, each time I give the reference Marklin, you just have to type in google 64624 marklin as I do with your English expressions that are unknown to me . In this way, you see immediately what it is about. But I admit I should have used the terms Double Slip Switch.

Pure reflex on my part

Thank you for your reply

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#7 Posted : 15 June 2019 05:53:12(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Ranjit Go to Quoted Post
Hi Serge...

I am a K-track user, and I like the look and feel of K-tracks. I started with M-track a very long time ago, but I am moving over to K-track entirely. Like Stephen has said, K-track will require "particular care and maintenance", as it is more flimsy than M or C-track. However, K-track can be made to look very prototypical with some good hand work. Go for it, man!

Cheers,
Ranjit


Hi Ranjit Cool

Thank you for your reply.

It's going to be a difficult choice but I'd like to know in more detail if the Double Slip Switches behave correctly and if there are not some snags from time to time

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#8 Posted : 15 June 2019 08:27:31(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
As it seems that the problems of c track double slip switches will be solved (see my thread 24624 and the wiring), the idea of converting to track-k is abandoned

Cheers

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User is suspended until 23/08/2019 10:37:50(UTC) Goofy  
#9 Posted : 15 June 2019 09:29:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,004
I have seen Märklin layout with the C tracks and turnouts do often have problem.
It´s a good choice with K tracks, but there can be some problem like to use turnout motor 75491.
There is always some pro and cons.
I use Tortoise motor and m84 by connect half-wave voltage.
This way are excellent for the K turnouts.
Of course you can also use Servo motor and ESU servo decoder with the K turnouts.
If you have decides to use K tracks...
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline David Dewar  
#10 Posted : 15 June 2019 12:36:03(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,692
Location: Scotland
C track for an easy life with good running and decoders etc under the road bed. K is fine if you like to add ballast and drill holes in the baseboard and will look good. However Rays layout has C track and with ballast between the tracks looks good which you can see when he posts what he is running today.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline dominator  
#11 Posted : 15 June 2019 12:43:28(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 736
Location: Kerikeri
Serge. There is a saying. Better the devil you know than the one you don't. I have grown up with M track, and was contemplating going to K track but then I realized that I would not end up with a perfect scale railway anyway, so decided to stay with the M. I know it well and now have very few problems and lots of spares.
Take care.
Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline Thewolf  
#12 Posted : 15 June 2019 12:48:38(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
C track for an easy life with good running and decoders etc under the road bed. K is fine if you like to add ballast and drill holes in the baseboard and will look good. However Rays layout has C track and with ballast between the tracks looks good which you can see when he posts what he is running today.


David... I abandoned the idea of the K-track

THewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline Thewolf  
#13 Posted : 15 June 2019 12:54:30(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Serge. There is a saying. Better the devil you know than the one you don't. I have grown up with M track, and was contemplating going to K track but then I realized that I would not end up with a perfect scale railway anyway, so decided to stay with the M. I know it well and now have very few problems and lots of spares.
Take care.
Dereck


Hi Derek,

As mentioned above, I'm staying on c-track for the simple reason that with the help of PeFu, the TJD (shit Double Slip Switch Laugh Laugh Laugh Flapper BigGrin ) problems will be solved (see my thread 24624 and the wiring).

Serge

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline DaleSchultz  
#14 Posted : 15 June 2019 19:38:36(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,046
good decision, I don't think K track will work for you.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Thewolf  
#15 Posted : 15 June 2019 20:33:12(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
good decision, I don't think K track will work for you.


Dale Cool

I think that you are right

Serge
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline hxmiesa  
#16 Posted : 18 June 2019 13:36:45(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
TJD is the French abbreviation for Double Slip Switch (24624)
Sorry but my first language is French and it's normal that from time to time I make a little mistake like this TJD.
Anyway, each time I give the reference Marklin, you just have to type in google 64624 marklin as I do with your English expressions that are unknown to me . In this way, you see immediately what it is about. But I admit I should have used the terms Double Slip Switch.

WTF???
If we were EXPECTING a french abreviation, we MIGHT have considered trying to translate it.
I would maybe have expected the abreviation "DKW", as we are in a highly german-influenced sphere here, but your explanation on the TJD part really defies any logic. roflmao

If you cant convert C-track pieces to contact tracks with a 100% success, K-track might not be for you...

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Thewolf  
#17 Posted : 18 June 2019 13:50:55(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
TJD is the French abbreviation for Double Slip Switch (24624)
Sorry but my first language is French and it's normal that from time to time I make a little mistake like this TJD.
Anyway, each time I give the reference Marklin, you just have to type in google 64624 marklin as I do with your English expressions that are unknown to me . In this way, you see immediately what it is about. But I admit I should have used the terms Double Slip Switch.

WTF???
If we were EXPECTING a french abreviation, we MIGHT have considered trying to translate it.
I would maybe have expected the abreviation "DKW", as we are in a highly german-influenced sphere here, but your explanation on the TJD part really defies any logic. roflmao

If you cant convert C-track pieces to contact tracks with a 100% success, K-track might not be for you...





Do you seem to have a mood problem? Is that possible? Or am I wrong?

Where were you looking for WTF???

And this is what??????Cool

TJD.PNG

What? What? You don't want Eden Hazard at the Real de Madrid Laugh Flapper

Thewolkf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Minok  
#18 Posted : 19 June 2019 21:24:00(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,000
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I too wondered what the hell a "TJD" is.
Then many posts later on the same day, it was "never mind I'm not doing k-track".
OK, so I guess there's nothing to see or learn from this post.

I'd agree with others, that the nature of K-track is that is is a more expert modeler track - and sensitive to a clean layout. The turnouts, especially the 3 way and double ones, need to be mounted absolutely in a plane that is stable, and not over-torqued if screwed down. It just takes much more careful installation and consideration of materials used.

I do plan to use k-track for the flex track ability on my mostly c-track layout, in order to create a more sweeping parade section, but all the turnouts and curves are going to be c-track.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Thewolf  
#19 Posted : 19 June 2019 21:57:59(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I too wondered what the hell a "TJD" is.
Then many posts later on the same day, it was "never mind I'm not doing k-track".
OK, so I guess there's nothing to see or learn from this post.

I'd agree with others, that the nature of K-track is that is is a more expert modeler track - and sensitive to a clean layout. The turnouts, especially the 3 way and double ones, need to be mounted absolutely in a plane that is stable, and not over-torqued if screwed down. It just takes much more careful installation and consideration of materials used.

I do plan to use k-track for the flex track ability on my mostly c-track layout, in order to create a more sweeping parade section, but all the turnouts and curves are going to be c-track.


I wonder if any of the native Anglophones are making the effort to understand what Francophones who make the effort to speak or write in English language mean or write or in their comments. It seems like you're unable to make any effort or I think you don't want to make the effort.

That's a real shame. I explain what TJD means, I attach pictures and links from Marklin's site, but there is nothing to do. It doesn't fit. It seems you're stubborn.

But if you don't want members whose native language is not English, say it and we'll get out of here!!!!!!

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Minok  
#20 Posted : 19 June 2019 22:19:33(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,000
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Thewolf,

Its a standard instruction that when writing and using an acronym, the first time in the writing it is used you should write out the full name to define the acronym.
Granted Märklin forums are especially bad by constantly taking in part numbers, as if all of use expend the effort to have part numbers understood in our minds, but still, if one wants to get an answer, it helps to communicate clearly to the reader.

I got to post 3 of the thread with 9 uses of the TJD term without a definition of what it was, and assumed others knew what it meant.

I'm not stubborn, but in trying to help you I'm only going to go so far before I give up and say, never-mind on the issue. Google also has a tough time translating acronyms if it doesn't know the language the acronym is in. On an English forum, when I see an undefined acronym that I don't already know, I start thinking about English language meanings: Terminal Junction Device? Nothing popped to mind that worked. Thinking the reader is going to then guess at what other language you used for that acronym when the rest of the post is in English, is an expectation too many in my view.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Thewolf  
#21 Posted : 19 June 2019 22:56:06(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Thewolf,

Its a standard instruction that when writing and using an acronym, the first time in the writing it is used you should write out the full name to define the acronym.
Granted Märklin forums are especially bad by constantly taking in part numbers, as if all of use expend the effort to have part numbers understood in our minds, but still, if one wants to get an answer, it helps to communicate clearly to the reader.

I got to post 3 of the thread with 9 uses of the TJD term without a definition of what it was, and assumed others knew what it meant.

I'm not stubborn, but in trying to help you I'm only going to go so far before I give up and say, never-mind on the issue. Google also has a tough time translating acronyms if it doesn't know the language the acronym is in. On an English forum, when I see an undefined acronym that I don't already know, I start thinking about English language meanings: Terminal Junction Device? Nothing popped to mind that worked. Thinking the reader is going to then guess at what other language you used for that acronym when the rest of the post is in English, is an expectation too many in my view.


Ok...I wrote over and over again that I would adapt and many times I have explained ......nevertheless I'm not going to start any controversy: the subject is not worth it and I don't have time to waste on it.

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Rwill  
#22 Posted : 19 June 2019 23:28:44(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 533
Location: England, London
Since we have spent thousands of words discussing Marklin abbreviations will some one remind me what the letters C,M &K stand for in relation to track types. The only possible clue I have is that the C stands for click. I expect to be put to shame for my ignorance within minutes.
Offline Crazy Harry  
#23 Posted : 20 June 2019 03:43:26(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
Since we have spent thousands of words discussing Marklin abbreviations will some one remind me what the letters C,M &K stand for in relation to track types. The only possible clue I have is that the C stands for click. I expect to be put to shame for my ignorance within minutes.


I think M meant Metall (German)/Metal (English) track and K meant Kunststoff (German)/Plastic (English). C track is also plastic so I couldn't guess where the C came from, maybe you are correct in thinking it stands for Click.

Harold.

Offline DaleSchultz  
#24 Posted : 20 June 2019 03:44:37(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,046
K = Kunststoff = Plastic
M = Metal = Metal
C = don't know, third type?
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline hxmiesa  
#25 Posted : 20 June 2019 10:32:11(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
But if you don't want members whose native language is not English, say it and we'll get out of here!!!!!!

I think that you are seriously derailing the convoy here...

My native language is danish, but for the last 20 years I´ve been living in Spain.
In your country, english is at least an oficial language there. ;-)
But what bothers me, is that you are now speaking for all non-native english speakers, with "we´ll get out of here". [sic]
For one; I won´t!!!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Thewolf  
#26 Posted : 20 June 2019 12:59:29(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
But if you don't want members whose native language is not English, say it and we'll get out of here!!!!!!

I think that you are seriously derailing the convoy here...

My native language is danish, but for the last 20 years I´ve been living in Spain.
In your country, english is at least an oficial language there. ;-)
But what bothers me, is that you are now speaking for all non-native english speakers, with "we´ll get out of here". [sic]
For one; I won´t!!!


For your information, I live in Quebec, which is officially the French province of Canada. No need to go any further !!

For the rest of your comments, I was talking about me. And I should have said so. But if you're offended by a simple insignificant sin like that, it's very sad, but it's not my problem.
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#27 Posted : 20 June 2019 13:03:00(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,652
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
.....9 uses of the TJD term without a definition of what it was, and assumed others knew what it meant.


I wondered what it meant as well but had no idea, and originally there was no indication from TheWolf.

Now I know he has since said it is the French abbreviation for the double slip switch but this is an English speaking forum and the forum rules are that if you post in another language you also provide a suitable translation. Don't assume that English speaking folks automatically know a French term for something. That doesn't mean we are all pillocks and don't want to know or learn, rather its that we haven't heard the term before and have no way of knowing what it means.

However that said, this is from the only French catalog I have with C track in it (2000/2001)

Capture.JPG

Now it makes sense!
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Offline Thewolf  
#28 Posted : 20 June 2019 13:13:15(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
.....9 uses of the TJD term without a definition of what it was, and assumed others knew what it meant.


I wondered what it meant as well but had no idea, and originally there was no indication from TheWolf.

Now I know he has since said it is the French abbreviation for the double slip switch but this is an English speaking forum and the forum rules are that if you post in another language you also provide a suitable translation. Don't assume that English speaking folks automatically know a French term for something. That doesn't mean we are all pillocks and don't want to know or learn, rather its that we haven't heard the term before and have no way of knowing what it means.

However that said, this is from the only French catalog I have with C track in it (2000/2001)

Capture.JPG

Now it makes sense!


How long are you going to go on like this?



Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#29 Posted : 20 June 2019 13:21:26(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,652
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
How long are you going to go on like this?


On that note, the thread is now locked!
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