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Offline michelvr  
#1 Posted : 05 June 2019 18:17:04(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question. Occasionally when I actuate the turnout the turnout makes the click sound of actuation then sometimes a bruuuu sound. It actuated property but should I be concerned about bruuu sound. Any idea what that sound is? Or more importantly is that normal? By the way this happens randomly with all the turnouts.

Thanks 🙏
Offline Thewolf  
#2 Posted : 05 June 2019 21:24:16(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,491
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question. Occasionally when I actuate the turnout the turnout makes the click sound of actuation then sometimes a bruuuu sound. It actuated property but should I be concerned about bruuu sound. Any idea what that sound is? Or more importantly is that normal? By the way this happens randomly with all the turnouts.

Thanks 🙏


My god MichelCrying

You're going to start a big discussion about the 74491 motors.

Since 2012 that I have been attending the forums in either English or French, it is Marklin's item that has raised the greatest number of questions everywhere.

The 74491 and its limit switches, the 74491 and its strange noises, the 74491 and its short or long term reliability, the 74491 which never stops annoying users.

I had that noise too 2-3 years ago. For me, the brrruuuu sound is the symptom of the end of the race which will soon give way

Or something is preventing the system from working properly

I no longer hesitate: I hear this noise; the motor goes on the operating table: I cut off the limit switches.

But we'll wait for the opinion of the forum's specialist

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 05 June 2019 21:42:36(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,491
Location: Longueuil-Canada




Is that what it is?
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#4 Posted : 06 June 2019 00:07:46(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Hello Thewolf,

I hope you're kidding!

You're telling me that the fifty, 50 x 74491 turnout motors that I just installed during the last few weeks will cause me to have sleepless nights with that racket?

I was told by Mike from Westend Trains that they work fine!
Offline Drongo  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2019 15:04:31(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,000
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Thewolf,

I hope you're kidding!

You're telling me that the fifty, 50 x 74491 turnout motors that I just installed during the last few weeks will cause me to have sleepless nights with that racket?

I was told by Mike from Westend Trains that they work fine!


Don't believe everything the salesman tells you. As mentioned earlier, this topic has been raised many times before. I've personally have returned around 75 to 90 of these motors and Marklin just send me back more of them for me to return later. In other words - they are not reliable - rubbish. At least this is my opinion.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline Thewolf  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2019 15:09:47(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,491
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Thewolf,

I hope you're kidding!

You're telling me that the fifty, 50 x 74491 turnout motors that I just installed during the last few weeks will cause me to have sleepless nights with that racket?

I was told by Mike from Westend Trains that they work fine!


Hi MichelCool

What does Mike say about these bruuu sounds?

Serge

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#7 Posted : 06 June 2019 16:33:46(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
What does Mike say about these bruuu sounds?

Serge



I'll ask him next time i'm in Toronto.

Cheers BigGrin

Michel

Edited by moderator 07 June 2019 06:02:54(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed quote tags

Offline michelvr  
#8 Posted : 06 June 2019 16:38:18(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Don't believe everything the salesman tells you. As mentioned earlier, this topic has been raised many times before. I've personally have returned around 75 to 90 of these motors and Marklin just send me back more of them for me to return later. In other words - they are not reliable - rubbish. At least this is my opinion.


I guess the positive side to this is that they will be replaced when I experience failures?

Funny now we know how familiar I was to this problem...NOT! Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing

With the Marklin K track I used the Tortoise switch machines and never had a problem. Sad thing is that I sold all of the 96 Tortoise's that I had. Regrets I have now.Crying Crying Crying

Edited by moderator 07 June 2019 06:03:33(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed quote tags

Offline PMPeter  
#9 Posted : 06 June 2019 16:51:06(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 953
Location: Port Moody, BC
I remember when you were considering changing from K track to C track a number of us were advising to carefully reconsider that since you may regret that decision later. I guess you now have your first regret.

I still regret not throwing all of my 1990s C track into the trash and sticking only with K track. Now that I have gotten rid of all of my turnout motors and replaced them with servos, I have much better control with Rocrail. No more Ghost Train errors due to a malfunctioning switch motor.

Peter
Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 06 June 2019 17:18:40(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question.


Which controller do you use? If i remember correctly, there's a workaround if you use CS2 or CS3.

If my memory serves me right: You have to set the "switching time" in the CS to 200mS ( ??? )

Then the switching time will be so short, that the power is applied for such a short time, that the end-stop-switches
don't have to turn of the power to the switch-motor / coil.

( Please help me here, someone who knows this in full detail BigGrin )

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

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In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline michelvr  
#11 Posted : 06 June 2019 18:40:12(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question.


Which controller do you use? If i remember correctly, there's a workaround if you use CS2 or CS3.

If my memory serves me right: You have to set the "switching time" in the CS to 200mS ( ??? )

Then the switching time will be so short, that the power is applied for such a short time, that the end-stop-switches
don't have to turn of the power to the switch-motor / coil.

( Please help me here, someone who knows this in full detail BigGrin )

Per.

Cool





Hi Purellum,

I have the ESU ECoS and I have switched the switching time to 33mS. But no matter what time it is still does the same. I have not experienced any failures just the bruuu sound every so often.




Offline michelvr  
#12 Posted : 06 June 2019 18:49:01(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I remember when you were considering changing from K track to C track a number of us were advising to carefully reconsider that since you may regret that decision later. I guess you now have your first regret.

I still regret not throwing all of my 1990s C track into the trash and sticking only with K track. Now that I have gotten rid of all of my turnout motors and replaced them with servos, I have much better control with Rocrail. No more Ghost Train errors due to a malfunctioning switch motor.

Peter



Hello Peter,

Yes I remember but I'm i sucker for trying something new. Besides the bruuu sound which occasionally happens when switching i have not had a turnout motor fail. I'm only at number 12 with my wiring installation and will have the other 38 done before the Marklin-user.met meet June 15!

Here's a sample of what I’m doing with the wiring.

Cheers!

9E300FE1-BDEB-4363-9932-5AE3D0F60BFD.jpeg5DF362A9-FA96-4590-B5E6-06F2753754F0.jpeg2E976CA3-DECA-4804-912B-AF50C57201F0.jpeg
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by michelvr
Offline Danlake  
#13 Posted : 06 June 2019 22:42:45(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,409
Hi Michel,

Here is my experience and knowledge in terms of Marklin turnout mechanism:

If you have older 74490 and 74491 version 1 you will eventually have failures unless you modify them self by bridging the shut off mechanisms (lots of videos on YouTube how to this modification which is fairly easy).

If you have newer 74491 version 2 which I believed was produced from 2018 and onwards (there is no official version 2 but users have noticed difference in pcb and components), some claims it may be more reliable.

My advise if controlling the turnouts digitally:

1. Do the modification regardless of version
Or
2. Make sure you cut access hole in the baseboard so you can easily replace them as hopefully your dealer will replace them under warranty.

Regarding the noise. I also have that noise on some of my turnouts (regardless of version or modified or not). I did find it help a bit to lower the activation time to around 100ms. After +5 years of use the noise itself does not seem to have resulted in any failures.

PS: after modifying turnouts I never had any subsequent failures.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Thewolf  
#14 Posted : 06 June 2019 22:47:18(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,491
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Michel,

Here is my experience and knowledge in terms of Marklin turnout mechanism:

If you have older 74490 and 74491 version 1 you will eventually have failures unless you modify them self by bridging the shut off mechanisms (lots of videos on YouTube how to this modification which is fairly easy).

If you have newer 74491 version 2 which I believed was produced from 2018 and onwards (there is no official version 2 but users have noticed difference in pcb and components), some claims it may be more reliable.

My advise if controlling the turnouts digitally:

1. Do the modification regardless of version
Or
2. Make sure you cut access hole in the baseboard so you can easily replace them as hopefully your dealer will replace them under warranty.

Regarding the noise. I also have that noise on some of my turnouts (regardless of version or modified or not). I did find it help a bit to lower the activation time to around 100ms. After +5 years of use the noise itself does not seem to have resulted in any failures.

PS: after modifying turnouts I never had any subsequent failures.

Best Regards
Lasse


All is said and done Cool

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
Offline michelvr  
#15 Posted : 06 June 2019 22:52:00(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Michel,

Here is my experience and knowledge in terms of Marklin turnout mechanism:

If you have older 74490 and 74491 version 1 you will eventually have failures unless you modify them self by bridging the shut off mechanisms (lots of videos on YouTube how to this modification which is fairly easy).

If you have newer 74491 version 2 which I believed was produced from 2018 and onwards (there is no official version 2 but users have noticed difference in pcb and components), some claims it may be more reliable.

My advise if controlling the turnouts digitally:

1. Do the modification regardless of version
Or
2. Make sure you cut access hole in the baseboard so you can easily replace them as hopefully your dealer will replace them under warranty.

Regarding the noise. I also have that noise on some of my turnouts (regardless of version or modified or not). I did find it help a bit to lower the activation time to around 100ms. After +5 years of use the noise itself does not seem to have resulted in any failures.

PS: after modifying turnouts I never had any subsequent failures.

Best Regards
Lasse


Hello Lasse,

Thank you for the recommendations, appreciated and duly noted. While I was in the building phase i did create access holes so hopefully everything is covered!

Regards,

MIchel
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by michelvr
Offline rrf  
#16 Posted : 07 June 2019 21:53:58(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 232
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello,

I have around thirty of the 74490/74491s. The oldest are probably 15 years old and the youngest are dated 2015. So far I have had three fail. Though the point about automation impacting the failure rate seems rather important as two of my three failures have been in the last couple of weeks as I programmed my first CS3 event driven routes.

So my question is ... has anyone found a good replacement from another vendor? I found the Viessmann 4554 but it is a combination turnout motor and decoder. I simply wish to have a motor to use with my M83s.

Thanks,

Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline michelvr  
#17 Posted : 08 June 2019 00:14:02(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Your question is a very good one!

Since I’m the originator of this post my answer is NO.

Has anyone found a good replacement from another vendor?
Offline michelvr  
#18 Posted : 08 June 2019 03:29:42(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Hello Rob,

It's an interesting topic because I never paid any attention to the posts highlighting all the issues with the turnout motor 74491!

I know nothing of the problems!

Reminds me of John Banner, AKA Sergent Schult:

.

It's too late now but I’m hopeful they work and if I do succumb to failures at least I made a access opening through the plywood so that I can remove them if the need ever arises.

Now to the facts about turnout motors. The only turnout motor that I know of that has never failed me in any way is the Circuitron's ”Tortoise Swith Machine” period. So if the preverbal “Scheisse hits the fan” then that's the route I will take.

Regards,

Michel
Offline rrf  
#19 Posted : 08 June 2019 13:14:36(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 232
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
It's an interesting topic because I never paid any attention to the posts highlighting all the issues with the turnout motor 74491!

<stuff deleted>

It's too late now but I’m hopeful they work and if I do succumb to failures at least I made a access opening through the plywood so that I can remove them if the need ever arises.

Now to the facts about turnout motors. The only turnout motor that I know of that has never failed me in any way is the Circuitron's ”Tortoise Switch Machine” period. So if the preverbal “Scheisse hits the fan” then that's the route I will take.

Hello Michel,

I too never seriously thought about the historic problems folks had until I read this thread. My reading just happened to coincide with the day I had to replace two of the eight switch motors on my test ovals. These two motors would fail to work intermittently, which of course wrought havoc with my route events.

So I'm now concerned about the automation I plan to implement on my permanent layout. Even a 10% failure rate implies a lot of train wrecks and a lot of extra effort replacing motors. With my pending summer break from Model Railroad construction (It's long past time to start working on the RC Combat Warships), I have four or five months until my new modular layout furniture will be ready for track laying. So I have a little bit of time to decide whether to invest in more 74491s.

BTW, I looked at the Circuitron site. Their motor doesn't appear to be easily modifiable for C-Track. Not to mention the site hasn't been updated for years and they do not take credit card or PayPal ... so I am a little leery about them as a vendor.

Good luck with your motors!

Regards,
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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Offline michelvr  
#20 Posted : 08 June 2019 15:18:37(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Hi Rob,

You're quite right with their website it hasn't changed in years but maybe that is because it's stood the test of time. The Tortoise switch machines work as advertised and as mentioned I never had a failure in any of the 96 that I owned.

Concerning Märklin's C track turnouts I haven’t experimented with the Tortoise switch machine as of yet but if the need arises I will let you know.

Regards,
Michel

Edited by user 08 June 2019 18:53:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Thewolf  
#21 Posted : 08 June 2019 20:25:27(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,491
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hi Michel Cool

I see you still don't have a completely serene mind with the 74491s.

You always get the wrong impression that they're going to let you go one of these days.

So I'll tell you what, okay? Your motors, they are new and you didn't buy them during the bad period of these motors that went, if my memories are good between 2012 (74490) and 2014-2015 .

Your motors represent the new generation of the 74491s to which Marklin has made some modifications over the past 2-3 years. I can be wrong in the dates.

But one thing is certain: Marklin considers them reliable. But it's like everything else in electronics, mechanics, it can give way one day.

If unfortunately a 74491 fails, that's not why it's bulshit!

So have fun and enjoy your meeting. In my opinion, there will be a lot of talk about the 74491s during this meeting.

If Mike's invited, he's gonna get his ears full of it.Laugh Laugh BigGrin Flapper

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline michelvr  
#22 Posted : 08 June 2019 22:23:32(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 967
Hello Serge,

I'm keeping your optimism right up there with the 74491 turnout motors never failing. BigGrin

We should have fun next weekend but you know, you could come to Barrie too! It's only a six and a half hour drive from Longueuil. Nothing is stopping you! Remember I lived in Montréal before I moved to Toronto and then Barrie. I did the trip almost every other weekend until my girlfriend moved here. It would be a good excuse to see a little bit of Canada, eh!

BTW: Mike is invited so hopefully he will come too. So far around five people confirmed.

Until then, have a great weekend!
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