Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline kamstutz  
#1 Posted : 21 May 2019 22:54:10(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
As an active Marklin collector for the past 5 years I receive (mostly) and ship (less often) collectible trains through the postal system and private carriers on a regular basis. I probably receive at least two or three packages a month. This past week I was reminded again the frustration of receiving an item in damaged condition after suffering breakage during transit. In the worst cases, as in my most recent experience this past week, the item purchased becomes un-repairable. As a buyer you may be protected from financial liability by the auction company (ie. eBay and PayPal), but financial reimbursement will not repair a broken vintage collectible. Also, if you are a seller, and ship with insurance, it is not sufficient to expect that the auction company or postal service will cover the costs of any insured claims. One must take the initiative to pack well if you are a seller or, if you are a buyer, provide some packaging tips to the seller. Often times sellers - especially those not experienced with shipping fragile collectibles - simply do not have enough experience on how to pack properly to ensure that items arrive safely in the same condition as that which they were originally portrayed and described.

I'm sure that all of you have had this happen before, but I would like to mention a few pointers for both those that sellers that ship and those buyers that (hope to) receive shipments safely.

  1. Remove parts that stick out and could easily be broken off. This includes couplers and pantographs. I must have lost at least 4 or 5 pairs of couplers on heavy locomotives before I took the initiative to ask the seller to remove them before shipping.

  2. If the item has an original box preferably remove the item from the box and bubble wrap separately. An item in an original box with any play whatsover inside will bounce around and cause damage. If it is not possible to remove the item(s) from the original packaging then make sure that there is absolutely no play or movement of the items within the box. Do the shake test. If you hear any sound then the item is not secured. Stuff all of the empty space with styrofoam peanuts or other packing material to take up the free space.

  3. Tape - Make sure any use of packing tape is stuck to the packing material and not to the item(s). This includes the original boxes or packaging. Seems kind of obvious, but I've seen packing tape stuck to vintage "bicycle" coach boxes that, when removed, tore away part of the OBX.

  4. If the item(s) are heavy then you should reinforce the shipping box with additional pieces of cardboard. Most flat rate boxes and priority mail boxes are rigid enough for normal shipments, but sometimes you might need to put a few extra pieces of cardboard to reinforce the side walls of the box- especially with heavy items.

  5. Pack any additional space with some filler. I've seen shredded newspaper used or the previously mentioned Styrofoam pellets/peanuts, or air bags (Amazon uses these quite frequently).

  6. The filling should pass slightly above the top of the box. Hold the box flaps closed (without taping yet) and shake the box hard. If all has been packed correctly you should not hear the sound of anything moving or shaking and you can safely tape the box closed.

Some of the above suggestions above seem rather obvious and others may seem overkill, but safe shipping is a must when transporting collectibles. If you are buying something it can't hurt to ask to seller to follow some of these suggestions - especially if the item being sold has an elevated value.

A warning to sellers - Even if you buy insurance from the shipping company (ie. postal service) your claim may be denied if it appears that the item shipped was not secured. The postal company does not assume responsibility for damage that does not appear to be caused from improper handling.

Comments are welcome. Have you received broken or damaged items that you had shipped to you? Have you sold items where the buyer complained of breakage when they received the package?

Kurt

kamstutz Offline
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by kamstutz
Offline David Dewar  
#2 Posted : 21 May 2019 23:23:20(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
I just buy from a dealer who ensures items arrive without damage. I never buy from Ebay and I rarely sell anything but if I do I make sure it is well packed and goes with a reputable company. Never ever had anything sent to me which was damaged. However it does only take three days to come from Germany which helps.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline dominator  
#3 Posted : 21 May 2019 23:47:27(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
I've seen well packed items broken, even when there is no sign of damage to the packaging. I dont recommend selling or buying any derivatives of the 4666 wagon unless it is handed over hand to hand.


I photographed the one I was to receive but cant seem to attach them here. The stanchions broke off and the pivots for the bogies completely broke of the frame. The brown frame and stanchions were obviously made of inferior plastic and the frame was so thin, it was only suitable as a showcase queen.


Dereck

worked it out. Lack of practice.

marklin 4666 damage 1.JPG

marklin 4666 damage 3.JPG
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by dominator
Offline kamstutz  
#4 Posted : 22 May 2019 23:06:29(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
I've seen well packed items broken, even when there is no sign of damage to the packaging...

Dereck,

Good to know that others have experienced the same pain of receiving broken items too. If the box in which your #46666 arrived was intact without dents indicating mishandling then the fault lies on that of the seller and not the shipper. You might have tried to return it (had you purchased the item on eBay for example). The freight car was probably not secured inside the package and bounced around until it broke. It's also doubtful that even if the seller had insurance on the wagon that he would be able to collect on a claim since there was no damage to the shipping box.

I have had to resort to teaching some sellers how to pack. Most serious sellers follow my advice, others do what they want...

Kurt
Offline dominator  
#5 Posted : 26 May 2019 00:17:24(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Hi Kurt. No problem with the seller. Got my money back after sending it back. I have bought quite a few great items from this seller and will still do so in the future. He has never listed a similar item since. I thought it was packed really well, and was surprised it was broken. You don't have much of a chance when the plastic is of inferior quality. Looking at the wagon , it compared in design to a lot of other wagons with that thin superstructure. If I see something like that for sale now, I look the other way.

I googled to see how many wagons were the same as the 4666.

4666,4766,4771,47711,47714,47713,47718,47717,47716,47715,47149,47148,47319 set of 4,47144,47143,47142,47141, 46095 set,8254 set,4516 set, trix 15647,15930,24409 set of 2.

Its probably unfair to presume they are all made of the same plastic, but how else does one know how to select the bad ones. Batch-year??

I haven't listed them all nor have I listed any with the same chassis but with no stanchions.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Dereck

BTW thats our previous cat Smudge in my Avatar.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline kamstutz  
#6 Posted : 26 May 2019 05:37:27(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
... the plastic is of inferior quality.


Dereck - In my opinion plastic, although here to stay, does not make a good material for a lot of model railroad items. Add a few decades of time and it becomes brittle or deformed. I've got 1970's plastic bridge piers, flat cars, and even switch controllers that are so distorted they are useless. A friend received a lot of "older" C-track once and it arrived in the mail with many pieces broken. Shipping well protected probably wouldn't have saved the track since it was so brittle you could break pieces off with just a slight pressure with one's thumb and forefingers. Best to leave "plastic quality" for another thread - I'm sure many of our members would have similar stories to tell...

Kurt

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kamstutz
Offline dominator  
#7 Posted : 27 May 2019 02:15:07(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Hi Kurt , you are probably right. Plastic now days isnt up to the standard of that used in the 800 series like the DA800's and other 50's and 60's locos I have.

I have been lucky. All other shipments I have received from overseas have arrived in great condition, including the original boxes which the items were packed in.
Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline PeterF7  
#8 Posted : 16 August 2019 05:08:44(UTC)
PeterF7

United States   
Joined: 14/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: North Carolina, Durham
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
As an active Marklin collector for the past 5 years I receive (mostly) and ship (less often) collectible trains through the postal system and private carriers on a regular basis. I probably receive at least two or three packages a month. This past week I was reminded again the frustration of receiving an item in damaged condition after suffering breakage during transit. In the worst cases, as in my most recent experience this past week, the item purchased becomes un-repairable. As a buyer you may be protected from financial liability by the auction company (ie. eBay and PayPal), but financial reimbursement will not repair a broken vintage collectible. Also, if you are a seller, and ship with insurance, it is not sufficient to expect that the auction company or postal service will cover the costs of any insured claims. One must take the initiative to pack well if you are a seller or, if you are a buyer, provide some packaging tips to the seller. Often times sellers - especially those not experienced with shipping fragile collectibles - simply do not have enough experience on how to pack properly to ensure that items arrive safely in the same condition as that which they were originally portrayed and described.

I'm sure that all of you have had this happen before, but I would like to mention a few pointers for both those that sellers that ship and those buyers that (hope to) receive shipments safely.

  1. Remove parts that stick out and could easily be broken off. This includes couplers and pantographs. I must have lost at least 4 or 5 pairs of couplers on heavy locomotives before I took the initiative to ask the seller to remove them before shipping.

  2. If the item has an original box preferably remove the item from the box and bubble wrap separately. An item in an original box with any play whatsover inside will bounce around and cause damage. If it is not possible to remove the item(s) from the original packaging then make sure that there is absolutely no play or movement of the items within the box. Do the shake test. If you hear any sound then the item is not secured. Stuff all of the empty space with styrofoam peanuts or other packing material to take up the free space.

  3. Tape - Make sure any use of packing tape is stuck to the packing material and not to the item(s). This includes the original boxes or packaging. Seems kind of obvious, but I've seen packing tape stuck to vintage "bicycle" coach boxes that, when removed, tore away part of the OBX.

  4. If the item(s) are heavy then you should reinforce the shipping box with additional pieces of cardboard. Most flat rate boxes and priority mail boxes are rigid enough for normal shipments, but sometimes you might need to put a few extra pieces of cardboard to reinforce the side walls of the box- especially with heavy items.

  5. Pack any additional space with some filler. I've seen shredded newspaper used or the previously mentioned Styrofoam pellets/peanuts, or air bags (Amazon uses these quite frequently).

  6. The filling should pass slightly above the top of the box. Hold the box flaps closed (without taping yet) and shake the box hard. If all has been packed correctly you should not hear the sound of anything moving or shaking and you can safely tape the box closed.

Some of the above suggestions above seem rather obvious and others may seem overkill, but safe shipping is a must when transporting collectibles. If you are buying something it can't hurt to ask to seller to follow some of these suggestions - especially if the item being sold has an elevated value.

A warning to sellers - Even if you buy insurance from the shipping company (ie. postal service) your claim may be denied if it appears that the item shipped was not secured. The postal company does not assume responsibility for damage that does not appear to be caused from improper handling.

Comments are welcome. Have you received broken or damaged items that you had shipped to you? Have you sold items where the buyer complained of breakage when they received the package?

Kurt

kamstutz Offline


I'll add one other thing. I recently bought a 48500S Amtrak set with 33621 AA units. The plastic cradle that held the AA units in the box had become brittle and when I received the package, the cradle was in a lot of large and very small pieces. Only a replaceable/repairable horn was broken. It could have been a lot worse.
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 16 August 2019 06:54:23(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I have seen models crash through the styrofoam cradle (start sets) because the shipper failed to fill the underside with padding. I have seen the plastic liner cause damage to the model because the model was subjected to shock in transit and the box and liner transferred the damage to the model. I have seen models that have shifted in their plastic or styrofoam cradles, which resulted in details being damaged/broken.

It takes three elements for a model to withstand shipment:

1) The model must be securely packaged in it's box

2) The box must be securely packed with insulation around the contents

3) The outer box must be capable of absorbing shock without transferring it to the contents inside.

If one of these is not followed, the chances of damage increase.

If you see that the model is at risk of shifting in it's cradle/package, you can add some popcorn or other padding to hold it in place.

If a model is packed in a box with a rigid filling, any shock will be transferred from the box to the contents.
Ideally, the filling should absorb the shock without it reaching the contents inside.
We hope that manufacturers design their products so that the packaging can survive shipping without the box or content being damaged. After all, we all want our models to arrive in mint condition.
If a manufacturer designs packaging that can't support the weight of the model, there is little chance that it will arrive without some kind of damage. Especially when models are equipped with handrails, pantographs and other features that can be easily damaged by the packaging.

For example, the diagonal railing on Swiss (and some other) models is often damaged in transit. Most times, it can be fixed by the user. If Maerklin were to use packaging that prevented this from coming into contact with the box, it would help. The packaging design used by recent Roco Re 4/4 and Re 6/6 models with a styrofoam cradle and top and bottom plastic liners does a very good job of protecting the models. Roco uses similar packaging for most models today.

If you are the shipper, make sure that there is 3cm of padding on each side of the model. Do not use newspaper or any other material that is not compressible. A model packed in newspaper is more likely to shift in case of an accident. If a box is dropped, the box will crush from the point of impact, the model will shift in direction of the point of impact (velocity) and the cumulative shock will be absorbed by the model and the internal packaging. using a well packed box with filling that can compress will prevent the velocity impact of the model and will lessen the chances of damage.

If you are shipping a valuable model, it may be a good idea to package the model in a box (padded) and to then pack that box in a larger box, which will create an additional layer of protection.

I had a friend who ordered a large order and it was well packed by the shipper, but it was inspected by customs and they removed the padding and repositioned the models in the box and handed it over to the post office for delivery. It did not survive that, as models were simply placed on top of each other with only some of the original padding in place. I think that over 50% of the contents were no longer usable or in original condition. US Customs and US Post both denied responsibility, each blaming the other.

Many people don't want to use larger boxes, because it increases the cost, but properly packing your models makes it much more likely that they will arrive in prime condition.
Explain that to the buyer and make them understand why the extra cost is worth it and whatever you do, take photos of the model, of the packaging and ship the package with insurance.
...and finally, most postal companies will settle claims with the shipper, not with the recipient, but it is the recipient who paid for it, so please, be understanding when the recipient has an issue and do what you can to make sure that both you and them are covered.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.640 seconds.