Do CS3 with 1.4.0 support competitors mfx protocol?

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Do CS3 with 1.4.0 support competitors mfx protocol?

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Goofy		#1 Posted : 17 April 2019 12:50:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Zimo present mfx protocol now as standard in the new sound decoder MS. It means it register at once with the system that support mfx protocol. But the question are if this can been done without problem(s)? I did sold my CS3 when i did had version 1.3.3. I plan to get a new system that support also mfx. The question is what system... Edited by user 22 April 2019 11:31:44(UTC) \| Reason: correct spell
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Bigdaddynz		#2 Posted : 17 April 2019 13:14:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Since mfx is a protocol with an established standard then any mfx supporting controller should be able to register any decoder that uses mfx. I would expect Zimo decoders with mfx to register on all Marklin Central Stations and ESU Ecos' and any other controller that supports mfx.
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MaerklinLife		#3 Posted : 17 April 2019 13:37:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Lol! So Goofy is planning another Central Station 3? 😂😂

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kiwiAlan		#4 Posted : 17 April 2019 18:30:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,107 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Lol! So Goofy is planning another Central Station 3? 😂😂 No, he's waiting for the cs4, because that will be a 'complete' controller ...

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Goofy		#5 Posted : 17 April 2019 19:21:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Lol! So Goofy is planning another Central Station 3? 😂😂 Why? When Märklin did open mfx protocol for the competitors i´m pretty sure they will start change digital system by fix the hardware to accept mfx protocol too.
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Goofy		#6 Posted : 17 April 2019 19:23:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Lol! So Goofy is planning another Central Station 3? 😂😂 No, he's waiting for the cs4, because that will be a 'complete' controller ... Who did said CS4 will arrived out?? You!???
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Goofy		#7 Posted : 17 April 2019 19:30:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		I wonder if Märklin did right by let competitors start produce sound decoder that support mfx protocol? The question is if there is possible to see new digital system that support mfx protocol too?
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Minok		#8 Posted : 17 April 2019 19:49:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Lol! So Goofy is planning another Central Station 3? 😂😂 Why? When Märklin did open mfx protocol for the competitors i´m pretty sure they will start change digital system by fix the hardware to accept mfx protocol too. Its coming out from a variety of forums in Europe to I'll be damned if I can find an official Märklin press release to confirm it directly, that they opened the mfx format to a great extent to others in the past month or so. This one from h0-modellbahnforum.de A new "fits mfx" trade logo is made available for use on decoders that pass the Märklin provided test system makers can use to validate their products against the mfx protocol support. A trade group/ working group is set up to facilitate this, so presumably one has to join, sign certain documents and NDAs on what to share and what they can and cannot do, and then gets access to the validation tests and a license to use the "fits mfx" trade mark. The forced limit of 16 functions seems a bit strange as a way to force Märklin decoder differentiation. Quote: Märklin öffnet mfx®– Protokoll für Wettbewerber „Märklin hat mit einem System aus digitalen Steuerungszentralen (Central Station und Mobile Station) sowie dem mfx® – Protokoll eine komfortable Modellbahnsteuerung geschaffen, die es den Kunden erlaubt, Lokomotiven oder Magnetartikel einfachst in Betrieb zu nehmen. Die mit einem mfx®-fähigen Decoder ausgestatten Lokomotiven melden sich selbständig an ihrer Märklin Steuerungszentrale (z.B. Central Station und Mobile Station) an. Alle Lokwerte stehen dem Nutzer schnell und einfach zur Verfügung. Der Spielspaß kann sofort beginnen. Eine Plug-and-Play-Möglichkeit in der Modellbahnbranche, bei der aufwändiges Programmieren oder Einrichten einer Lok der Vergangenheit angehört. Diese Technologie ist mittlerweile so gut anerkannt, dass es auf dem Modellbahnmarkt zwischenzeitlich erste Produkte mit Decodern gibt, die mittels des mfx®-Protokolls mit den Märklin Steuergeräten kommunizieren sollen. Damit Verbraucher, die ein solches Gerät mit Fremd-Decoder erwerben, auch durchgängig sichere Fahreigenschaften mit unseren Bediengeräten genießen können, haben wir beschlossen, das Protokoll als „Standard“ für die Modellbahnbranche zu öffnen. Um die systemkompatible Entwicklung zu gewährleisten, wurde ein „mfx®-Arbeitskreis“ gegründet, dem sich die Mitbewerber der Modellbahnbranche anschließen können. Die Arbeitskreisteilnehmer erhalten eine technische Spezifikation, um in Eigenregie mfx®-kompatible Decoder mit bis zu 16 Funktionen zu entwickeln, die mit den komfortablen Märklin Bediengeräten zuverlässig funktionieren. Die Kompatibilität der Fremd-Decoder wird durch einen von Märklin zur Verfügung gestellten Referenztest überprüft, den die Arbeitskreisteilnehmer selbstständig vornehmen. Haben die Fremd-Decoder diesen mfx®-Kompatibilitätstest bestanden, besteht für den Modelleisenbahner die Sicherheit, dass auch diese Produkte jederzeit zuverlässig mit den Märklin Bediengeräten (Central Station 2 und 3 oder Mobile Station 1 und 2) funktionieren. Der Artikel darf das neu geschaffene Gütezeichen „fits mfx®“ tragen, das dem Kunden die Systemkompatibilität zeigt. Das bedeutet, dass – neben Produkten von Märklin mit dem Original mfx®-Logo nunmehr auch Produkte mit dem neuen „fits mfx®“ Gütezeichen die Sicherheit bieten, die vielfältigen Funktionen und Vorteile der Märklin Bediengeräte uneingeschränkt zu nutzen. Produkte ohne das „fits mfx®“ Zeichen oder mit einem anders aussehenden Logo sind nicht auf diese Qualitätskriterien geprüft. Eine korrekte Funktionalität kann nicht gewährleistet werden. Durch diese Initiative bietet sich nunmehr den Modellbahnfreunden die Möglichkeit, die mfx®-Technologie beispielsweise in unserem derzeit modernsten Steuergerät der Modellbahnbranche – der Central Station 3 – auch mit Lokomotiven zu nutzen, die mit mfx®-fähigen Fremd-Decodern ausgestattet sind. Quelle: Eric-Michael Peschel / Gebr. Märklin & Cie. GmbH The aim appears to be to help sell more CS3 units, by allowing other decoder makers to directly support mfx.
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Purellum		#9 Posted : 17 April 2019 22:19:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy Who did said CS4 will arrived out?? You!??? No, it was actually you; first time was 16/1-2017, because you totally misunderstood what you read on Stummi's https://www.marklin-user...LL-now-online#post537878 This is what you miss-quoted from: https://www.stummiforum....c.php?p=1640406#p1640406 Per.
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Defke		#10 Posted : 17 April 2019 22:49:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/04/2019(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Antwerp		It does support the mfx from competitors. However, i found out that marklin seems to accept only 16 functions, where the loc can have feature until 24 functions... so I then disable mfx and set the loc to dcc, to have the other 8 functions available. I have seen this several times with esu desoders (m4)


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clapcott		#11 Posted : 17 April 2019 23:25:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Goofys question is quite valid. I would first ensure understanding of three things - is it Marklins mfx that the competitor is quoting with its registered trademark or a , potentially, different dialect (e.g. M4) - which version of the protocol is being compared - is this a controller to device or a device to controller comparison. The first point is for the lawyers. but if the same term is used it had better be compatible - at least within the version control allowed by the protocol itself The last point is a trick question. In relation to the FITSmfx AND the 2nd point, the initial documentation made reference to only 16 functions. Whereas when Marklin introduced an extension to the mFX protocol to support 32 functions the, unstated, inference was that a 32function decoder was able to register and work in 16 function mode when the controller told it to. i.e. User a DIFFERENT subset of the protocol Conversely, it was well known within this forum that, prior to the 32function mfx support availability, a multiprotocol deccoder might offer 24 functions in DCC mode but only 16 in mfx mode. Just because the controller may have been subsequently updated to support 32 function does not put any onus on these decoder manufactures to update their chips to support it. What I haven't investigated is whether a non Marklin controller can cope with managing the likes of a m83/m84 or Signals that Marklin has produced that use mfx for configuration. So, if a competitors controller is stated to "support mfx" but does not handle 32 locomotive functions or m83s configuration via mfx ... are they lying ?
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kgsjoqvist		#12 Posted : 18 April 2019 10:01:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby		If the loco/decoder is labelled with ”mfx” or ”M4” you can expert it to work with CS, MS and all other controllers with mfx protocol enabled. However only with 16 functions. 32 functions require a Central Station 2/3 and a Märklin branded decoder. As long as you want to run on mfx. But supposedly the sound locos with more than 16 functions will have DCC protocol available as well, and in that case you would prefer not to use mfx. And a non-Märklin mfx loco would have the most important functions available at F1-F16 anyway, just like a Märklin mfx loco has some functions available for older controllers even if you need a Central Station to have them all. I think it’s a good development that you can find decoder from different brands and still have the comfort of using mfx. Of course if you desperately need 32 functions you have the choice between a DCC decoder or Märklin mfx at a slightly higher price.
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Goofy		#13 Posted : 18 April 2019 10:36:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy Who did said CS4 will arrived out?? You!??? No, it was actually you; first time was 16/1-2017, because you totally misunderstood what you read on Stummi's https://www.marklin-user...LL-now-online#post537878 This is what you miss-quoted from: https://www.stummiforum....c.php?p=1640406#p1640406 Per. Nope i did wrote CS4 "from another forum" by focus to you what somebody did present. No mistakes here.
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Goofy		#14 Posted : 18 April 2019 10:42:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		What is worth to get a system that is important to have nice software to use protocols? If i have Märklins CS3 and use competitors mfx decoder, what possible is there for me to equal with Märklins own mfx/mfx+ decoder? Will Zimo with the new sound decoder support more than 16 functions too? If you buy a Roco three rail with the sound decoder from Zimo that support mfx protocol, would you been expect same way like Märklins digital locomotive? Are Zimo decoder with mfx protocol better than Märklins?
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Purellum		#15 Posted : 18 April 2019 10:55:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy Nope i did wrote CS4 "from another forum" by focus to you what somebody did present. No mistakes here. This is what you wrote: Originally Posted by: Goofy No mega start with CS3. Did read in stummiforum,that somebody did write an new CS4. But nobody on Stummi's wrote that a CS4 was on it's way, so yes, you made a big mistake. This is the topic from Stummi's, which you didn't understand: https://www.stummiforum....dc4b7bd0977e25e7a7a0c3e5 Per.
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Goofy		#16 Posted : 18 April 2019 11:51:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy Nope i did wrote CS4 "from another forum" by focus to you what somebody did present. No mistakes here. This is what you wrote: Originally Posted by: Goofy No mega start with CS3. Did read in stummiforum,that somebody did write an new CS4. But nobody on Stummi's wrote that a CS4 was on it's way, so yes, you made a big mistake. This is the topic from Stummi's, which you didn't understand: https://www.stummiforum....dc4b7bd0977e25e7a7a0c3e5 Per. Here we go again with a person who leaves the topic and start fight again. You are boring!
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MaerklinLife		#17 Posted : 18 April 2019 12:12:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: Goofy When Märklin did open mfx protocol for the competitors i´m pretty sure they will start change digital system by fix the hardware to accept mfx protocol too. Mfx is for Märklin Central Station and the Mobile Station. No other manufacturer will make a truly authorized mfx controller. The Fits Mfx program is for decoders only. If you want true mfx with all the bells and whistles the CS3 is your only option. Sadly, you have sold yours. If you plan to go for another controller, you should forget about mfx all together. It will never be satisfying - especially not for you...

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kiwiAlan		#18 Posted : 18 April 2019 13:06:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,107 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Goofy Will Zimo with the new sound decoder support more than 16 functions too? That will depend on if they are signing up to the 'Fits mfx' program or not. If they are signing up to the Marklin program then I would guess there will be a legal requirement that limits them to 16 functions. If they don't sign up to the program then I suppose they will be like ESU and able to offer more than 16 functions.


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Purellum		#19 Posted : 18 April 2019 13:10:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy Here we go again with a person who leaves the topic and start fight again. You are boring! 1: I have not left; I'm still here. 2: I'm not fighting, I'm just presenting the facts. 3: You may not like the facts, and you may find them boring; but it's still the facts, and only a response to your own gibberish. Originally Posted by: Goofy Who did said CS4 will arrived out?? You!??? Per.
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MaerklinLife		#20 Posted : 18 April 2019 14:32:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		A friend of mine got one of the Zimos with Fits mfx logo. It registered with 32 functions. My guess is that the 16 functions can be considered supported, but more than that are unsupported and not part of the certification. That doesn't mean that they cannot be available, you just cannot count on them being there or working as intended. Personally I think this is a strange limitation. Especially when Märklin themselves does not provide decoders with Plux22. Either do that and be serious about it or allow others to officially provide 32 functions with mfx. The latter would be the best choice. There is no point in limiting this - other than trying to give yourself an advantage. Opportunity lost when you don't provide real options for other plugs than your own...


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Minok		#21 Posted : 18 April 2019 20:49:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife A friend of mine got one of the Zimos with Fits mfx logo. It registered with 32 functions. My guess is that the 16 functions can be considered supported, but more than that are unsupported and not part of the certification. That doesn't mean that they cannot be available, you just cannot count on them being there or working as intended. Personally I think this is a strange limitation. Especially when Märklin themselves does not provide decoders with Plux22. Either do that and be serious about it or allow others to officially provide 32 functions with mfx. The latter would be the best choice. There is no point in limiting this - other than trying to give yourself an advantage. Opportunity lost when you don't provide real options for other plugs than your own... Those are the dealer samples right? Visiting the Zimo website ( http://www.zimo.at/web2010/index.html ) I"m seeing that the new MS- generation of decoders, a few have been sent as dealers samples, with general availability to come soon ("Die Auslieferung MS450 und MS450P22 hat begonnen (22. Februar 2019), zunächst Fachhändler-Muster; allgemeine Verfügbarkeit von "Dampf-Decodern" in Kürze.") If indeed the testing/certification program is set up to only validate the 16 function mfx level of conformance (fits mfx), but there isn't a contractual limitation that prevents the supplier from implementing a 32 function mfx capable decoder, that would be ideal.
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MaerklinLife		#22 Posted : 18 April 2019 22:37:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		I am not sure if it was a dealer sample or not, according to their website, I guess it must have been. Anyway, as you say, it is nice if they can include 32 functions regardless of the certification. I think it would be best though if the limitation wasn't there at all. It seems a bit weird. It must be in Märklins interest to make mfx perform at its best - regardless of who makes the decoder. We are right back to "I'll go with DCC, because mfx only supports 16 functions" - which I bet some one will say at some point. The limitation makes mfx seem limited compared to the competition. I just don't get it.


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TEEWolf		#23 Posted : 19 April 2019 01:30:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Goofy Zimo present mfx protocol now as standard in the new sound decoder MS. It means it register at once with the system that support mfx protocol. But the question are if this can been done without problem(s)? I did sold my CS3 when i did had version 1.3.3. I plan to get a new system that support also mfx. The question is what system... At the moment I only know one controller system supporting mfx. It is the CS 3 and CS 3 plus from Märklin. But I guess, if you are waiting a couple of weeks than almost everybody of the competitors will offer a controller understanding mfx as well as it does by DCC today. By opening mfx for everybody Märklin has set up a new common standard in the MRR world. This will have a significant effect on all competitors of Märklin. Also while Märklin is using its mfx format already for much more decoders (eg signals) than only for locos. So a CS 3 today is already a management system too for digital addresses at a complete digital layout. Märklin writes a note about the opening of the mfx protocol in its actual Märklin Magazine 02-2019 April/May page 25 German edition. At the end they are telling to offer everybody a special testimonial test to achieve compatibility of its product with mfx and this is called FITS-mfx. Unfortunately I cannot upload the file of this MM 02/19 because the size is too big (ca. 34 MB). Or does anybody know here, as a PDF file can be uploaded with more than the 19 MB maximum?
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MaerklinLife		#24 Posted : 19 April 2019 05:59:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Unfortunately I cannot upload the file of this MM 02/19 because the size is too big (ca. 34 MB) That would also violate Märklins copyright on the article.


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MaerklinLife		#25 Posted : 19 April 2019 06:04:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf By opening mfx for everybody Märklin has set up a new common standard in the MRR world. Definitely not for everybody. Only a select group of manufacturers that participate in a workgroup on the subject. Anyone can tune in, of course, but you have to commit yourself to the workgroup. Again, this is only for decoders NOT controllers. At the time being, you will not see any controllers with the Fits Mfx logo.


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Purellum		#26 Posted : 19 April 2019 08:28:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf At the moment I only know one controller system supporting mfx. I thought that you knew about the ECoS from ESU ( The "have fun with your ESU etc blabla"-controller ) Per.
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mbarreto		#27 Posted : 19 April 2019 10:04:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		This is not new now and as much as I understand the product was not released yet. Uhlenbrock announced the mfu-module. The prooduct descritpion translated by DeepL Translator is: With the new mfu module, your Intellibox II can also be used with the mfx® vehicles of your plant. With the automatic login, the vehicles are entered into the Intellibox II database with their name and the associated probe function symbols, so that they can be selected and operated immediately with every convenience. Now you can directly reach all specials functions and can control your mfx® vehicles with 128 speed steps. The mfu module is connected to the track output of the Intellibox II, to the rails and to LocoNet. The link is: https://www.uhlenbrock.d...ewitems/i005ab42-001.htm!ArcEntryInfo=0004.1.i005ab42 So, it seems Intellibox II with this module together is a system that supports mfx. If it works well I guess a newer version of IB will have mfx locomotive control built in. I don't know how royalties apply in this case, I mean if Uhlenbrock will have to call mfx some other name if they have mfx control built in the controller (like ESU with M4).
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TEEWolf		#28 Posted : 19 April 2019 21:46:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Unfortunately I cannot upload the file of this MM 02/19 because the size is too big (ca. 34 MB) That would also violate Märklins copyright on the article. Do not think so. Because you may download it as PDF-file by yourself here - for free: Edit - Link removed for copyright reasons /webmaster
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Purellum		#29 Posted : 19 April 2019 22:02:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Unfortunately I cannot upload the file of this MM 02/19 because the size is too big (ca. 34 MB) That would also violate Märklins copyright on the article. Do not think so. Because you may download it as PDF-file by yourself here - for free: Edit - Link removed for copyright reasons /webmaster Instead of thinking you should just for once try to find the facts. de.*******.com is an illegal site, and downloading from de.*******.com is illegal. Per. Edit: I have removed the name of the illegal download site.
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Webmaster		#30 Posted : 19 April 2019 22:16:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		Uploading a current magazine scan is not ok, and we do not wish to refer to rouge sites for downloads of copyrighted material. I'm afraid that it seems to me that not everyone is aware of what it takes to run a serious site on the Internet.
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Bigdaddynz		#31 Posted : 20 April 2019 12:16:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: mbarreto So, it seems Intellibox II with this module together is a system that supports mfx. No it doesn't..... I was talking to Peter Clapcott about this very module yesterday. Peter told me that after waiting for two and a half years he has given up waiting for this module to appear and has cancelled his order, it seems it is vapourware. Peter said that the module doesn't support full two way mfx communication. The module only provides registration of the name and icons applicable to a particular loco - it doesn't even support full loco registration.
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MaerklinLife		#32 Posted : 20 April 2019 15:20:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz The module only provides registration of the name and icons applicable to a particular loco - it doesn't even support full loco registration. Correct. As I wrote earlier: The opening up mfx is ONLY for decoders. You will not get a fully functioning mfx controller from anyone but Märklin. At least not for the time being and near future.


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mbarreto		#33 Posted : 20 April 2019 22:53:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		Despite copyrights and all licencing limitations ESU has M4. What is preventing others from doing something similar? Is it ESU has special rights?
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.


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TEEWolf		#34 Posted : 20 April 2019 23:32:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: mbarreto Despite copyrights and all licencing limitations ESU has M4. What is preventing others from doing something similar? Now, after opening the mfx format for everbody by Märklin - nothing. Quote: Is it ESU has special rights? ESU shall have developed the mfx format for Märklin and named it for their own usage M4. Others did not have patent rights producing and using the mfx format with their decoders. After Märklin opened mfx for everybody, forget the past. Now the market will be mixed up completly new.
		WWW

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Purellum		#35 Posted : 21 April 2019 07:45:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		There has never been granted a patent on the protocol called M4 by ESU and called MFX by Märklin. ESU applied for a patent to prevent others to do the same; but was never granted a patent, and probably never wanted or expected to get the patent. Only the names "MFX" and "M4" are protected, thus everybody could always have made a similar functionality in their decoders and controllers - if the were able to and wanted to. The only thing new is the "FitsMFX" logo and workshop. Per. P.S: This was discussed here exactly 12 years ago: https://www.marklin-user...m/posts/t7045-mfx-patent
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

2 users liked this useful post by Purellum		Bigdaddynz, mbarreto
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Goofy		#36 Posted : 21 April 2019 11:14:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		I show here a pdf file from Zimo. Read it! The Roco BR 85 do have mfx protocol and have 26 functions! www.zimo.at/web2010/docu...450P22%20SW%202.0_EN.pdf
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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Goofy		#37 Posted : 21 April 2019 11:20:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		I´m not really sure...but is it possible by use mfx protocol when you have automatic loopback in two rail too? Then in case a new automatic loopback modul that support mfx protocol introduce? Edited by user 22 April 2019 10:18:58(UTC) \| Reason: Changed to correct word
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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Goofy		#38 Posted : 21 April 2019 11:26:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		By the way...i did ordered a new CS3. I was planning to buy Lenz new system SET101 with the new LZV200, but it was not worth to get it since it shows same system like LZV100 and USB Interface together. Lenz still keep on with the stone-age digital system. So i return back to the CS3.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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Purellum		#39 Posted : 21 April 2019 11:27:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy I´m not really sure...but is it possible by use mfx protocol when you have automatic loopback in two rail too? Then in case a new automatic loopback decoder that support mfx protocol introduce? I think you mean a reverse loop. A reverse loop module is basically just relays, controlled by current detection, so I don't think you need a special one for MFX. Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.


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Purellum		#40 Posted : 21 April 2019 11:31:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy By the way...i did ordered a new CS3. Congratulations ( I think............ ) Originally Posted by: Goofy Lenz still keep on with the stone-age digital system. A few weeks ago the Lenz stone age digital system was the best you could get Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.


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Goofy		#41 Posted : 21 April 2019 12:04:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy By the way...i did ordered a new CS3. Congratulations Originally Posted by: Goofy Lenz still keep on with the stone-age digital system. A few weeks ago the Lenz stone age digital system was the best you could get Per. Yes Lenz system LZV100 are good but the new LZV200 has not been changed. It´s easy to use Lenz system but they have not changed to better system against what competitors present.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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Goofy		#42 Posted : 21 April 2019 12:07:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy I´m not really sure...but is it possible by use mfx protocol when you have automatic loopback in two rail too? Then in case a new automatic loopback decoder that support mfx protocol introduce? I think you mean a reverse loop. A reverse loop module is basically just relays, controlled by current detection, so I don't think you need a special one for MFX. Per. Automatic loopback is reverse loop. There is reverse loop digital modul but support and allows only DCC protocol. I don´t think it accept mfx protocol. Edited by user 22 April 2019 10:20:26(UTC) \| Reason: Changed to correct word
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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David Dewar		#43 Posted : 21 April 2019 12:41:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		I enjoy reading these threads with all the usual suspects joining in. I just run Marklin (mainly) locos with my CS3 and Marklin decoders and have no idea about all the many other controllers out there from firms that make nothing else I would buy anyway. ESU appear to be selling a few locos etc which is good to see and if they can do three rail track then Marklin will have some decent competition which I would look at. How long will Goofys new CS3 last would be a good competition for the site (just kidding Goofy and hope you enjoy the new controller)
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.

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kiwiAlan		#44 Posted : 21 April 2019 13:30:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,107 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy I´m not really sure...but is it possible by use mfx protocol when you have automatic loopback in two rail too? Then in case a new automatic loopback decoder that support mfx protocol introduce? I think you mean a reverse loop. A reverse loop module is basically just relays, controlled by current detection, so I don't think you need a special one for MFX. Per. Marklin supply mfx decoders in Trix and LGB locos, so yes, it works for 2-rail as well.


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kiwiAlan		#45 Posted : 21 April 2019 13:35:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,107 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Goofy I show here a pdf file from Zimo. Read it! The Roco BR 85 do have mfx protocol and have 26 functions! www.zimo.at/web2010/docu...450P22%20SW%202.0_EN.pdf It is interesting looking through that document. On the first page it shows three revisions in 2018, the first release being almost exactly a year ago. They have obviously mapped out various plans for upgrades to features as well, although the details aren't filled in for many of them. It seems they have only released these decoders to market with version 2 software release. But it is the same problem, still not a 'complete system', it still needs upgrades ...


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Purellum		#46 Posted : 21 April 2019 13:44:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy Automatic loopback is reverse loop. OK, new to me. Originally Posted by: Goofy There is reverse loop digital decoder but support and allows only DCC protocol. I don´t think it accept mfx protocol. It would help if you told us which decoder / module you are thinking of, and maybe why you want to use just this, instead of the many others that works both on analog and every digital system Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.


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kiwiAlan		#47 Posted : 21 April 2019 13:46:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,107 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy Automatic loopback is reverse loop. OK, new to me. Originally Posted by: Goofy There is reverse loop digital decoder but support and allows only DCC protocol. I don´t think it accept mfx protocol. It would help if you told us which decoder / module you are thinking of, and maybe why you want to use just this, instead of the many others that works both on analog and every digital system Per. All the reverse loop auto-switches I am aware of work on the basis of detecting a short and can be used on digital or DC systems. Having a DCC or mfx protocol has nothing to do with how the switch works.


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MaerklinLife		#48 Posted : 21 April 2019 13:50:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: Goofy Automatic loopback is reverse loop. There is reverse loop digital decoder but support and allows only DCC protocol. I don´t think it accept mfx protocol. What a load of rubbish. An automatic reverse module does not care at all about the protocol at used. It only cares about either a short circuit detection or (as is the case of the Trix reverse module) feedback detection from the internal sensor. It will work with what ever digital system you throw at it.


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MaerklinLife		#49 Posted : 21 April 2019 13:52:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan All the reverse loop auto-switches I am aware of work on the basis of detecting a short and can be used on digital or DC systems. Having a DCC or mfx protocol has nothing to do with how the switch works. Correct. One just has to be aware that the culprit with regards to "working with DC" is that the module changes the polarity of the entire layout, and NOT the loop itself. If it changed the polarity of the loop itself, the train would go in reverse. Reverse modules on DC is not good for much, perhaps a tram going back and forth. But not for a busy layout. Reverse modules works best with digital operation - and the Trix module can work without short detection using a built-in feedback sensor. It can even flip the turnout at the entrance of the loop for convenience.


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MaerklinLife		#50 Posted : 21 April 2019 13:55:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: Goofy By the way...i did ordered a new CS3. So i return back to the CS3. Great. I will start taking bets on when you leave it again...


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