Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline lewistrain  
#1 Posted : 17 April 2019 00:30:15(UTC)
lewistrain

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
I was just wondering if some electric loks had small diesel engines or generators to provide limited mobility when out of reach of caterary or for other things?.
How do they raise the pantograph prior to being energised? A hand hudraulic pump?.
LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them.
Offline TEEWolf  
#2 Posted : 17 April 2019 01:09:24(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,775
Originally Posted by: lewistrain Go to Quoted Post
I was just wondering if some electric loks had small diesel engines or generators to provide limited mobility when out of reach of caterary or for other things?.
How do they raise the pantograph prior to being energised? A hand hudraulic pump?.


Planes have specific jetengines as an APU on board and batteries. Nevertheless they get electricity mostly from the airport power system while they were prepared for the next flight. Similar with ships in a harbour. A regular engine is noisy, dirty and expensive.

But in the last years specially so called "last mile" locos were developed. Read more here from Bombardier. OK, if you like to say so, they carry around a specific train-APU with themselves or say they are hybrid locos, even it is only for "the last mile".

https://rail.bombardier....raxx-last-mile-locomo/en
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 17 April 2019 04:37:53(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,312
Location: Montreal, QC
I guess that "last mile" could also be first mile if the train starts from a non-electrified section and heads onto the electrified network...

I don't think that they need the diesel generator to raise the pantographs. That is probably powered by batteries like the headlights in station mode.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 17 April 2019 12:43:45(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,389
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: lewistrain Go to Quoted Post
I was just wondering if some electric loks had small diesel engines or generators to provide limited mobility when out of reach of caterary or for other things?.
How do they raise the pantograph prior to being energised? A hand hudraulic pump?.


The British Rail class 73 (and 74) Electro-diesels were such locos. They were 3rd rail electrics with an additional diesel engine for working on non-electrified lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org...ki/British_Rail_Class_73
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 17 April 2019 15:56:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,406
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: lewistrain Go to Quoted Post
I was just wondering if some electric loks had small diesel engines or generators to provide limited mobility when out of reach of caterary or for other things?.
How do they raise the pantograph prior to being energised? A hand hudraulic pump?.


I always thought the pantograph was sprung to its up position (rather like a Marklin pantograph) and that is how they follow variations in the catenary height, and used air pressure in a cylinder to lower it.

So to raise a pantograph there is a mechanical latch that has to be released, but to lower it it uses air pressure, presumably from its brake pressure system.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#6 Posted : 17 April 2019 19:43:01(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Here is some info from:

http://www.br143.de/

under "Tecknik - Bedienung / Führerstand"

UserPostedImage

"Führerstand": The lower handle just to the left of the phone is "Stromabnehmer (Panto) Ab/Auf" (On-Up/Off-Down)

UserPostedImage

"Batterieschalttafel": The Battery switchboard - quite a "battery" of "battery power"

[And on a smaller scale, restaurant cars only run off the panto when parked (again battery up/down) or station power when available. (Wheel generators or lok power for power during travel.)]

Springs hold the panto in contact with the catenary, allowing for the minor irregularities of track and cat. (edit)

Jimmy
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Jimmy Thompson
Offline TEEWolf  
#7 Posted : 18 April 2019 04:48:46(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,775
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I guess that "last mile" could also be first mile if the train starts from a non-electrified section and heads onto the electrified network...

I don't think that they need the diesel generator to raise the pantographs. That is probably powered by batteries like the headlights in station mode.

Regards

Mike C


Of course is the last mile a first mile as well. It is an expression (abstract name) for a connection from the main routing to the connecting point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_mile

Every loco has a battery inside like your car to start the engine. But I have not had a proof for this yet. But I think @Jimmy Thompson showed the proof in his post. Major problem is always the language, because the German Wikipedia is very often very different in its descriptions.

German
https://de.wikipedia.org...e_note-etr-2014-9-174-55

English
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRAXX



In the German version you find under Traxx AC 3 something about the last mile module. I translated it, because I could not find an equivalent in the English version.

"Traxx AC3
As the first variant of the Traxx-3 family, Bombardier presented the dual-frequency AC locomotive "Traxx AC3" at the Transport and Logistics trade fair in Munich in May 2011.

[...]

Completely new is the optionally available Last Mile Module (LM), consisting of an auxiliary diesel engine, a traction battery and a fuel tank, in order to also be able to travel on non-electrified line sections and feeder tracks. The Deutz diesel engine has a displacement of 7150 cm³, an output of 230 kW (180 kW at the wheel), 290 kW with battery support and meets the Stage IIIB emission standard. In diesel mode, all four traction motors are operated, the starting tractive effort remains unchanged at 300 kN with battery support and 260 kN without battery. Without trailer load a maximum speed of 60 km/h is possible, with 2000 tons load 40 km/h are still possible. The tank capacity of 400 litres is sufficient for up to eight hours of diesel operation, short distances can also be covered exclusively with the built-in battery. The transition from electric to diesel operation can take place while the vehicle is in motion. A radio remote control is also available for shunting operation. Experience gained with the ALP-45DP two-power locomotives used in the USA has been incorporated into this development."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

And I think with 400 litres Diesel you go for more than one mile.Smile The text says 8 hours.

For those who like to see power point presentations, here is one for the Traxx platform

http://www.schienenfahrz...ad/PDF2011/5-Altmann.pdf

Mike you understand German? Here is a special PDF file from Bombardier

http://www.schienenfahrz...F2014/MiV02-Honegger.pdf

about technical informatons of their Diesel loco. Very interesting page 9 of this file, with the title "Traxx DE ME Supercaps replacing starter battery". Not only Märklin has supercaps.BigGrin

Regards

TEEWolf


P.S.: sorry @mike c I just have forgotten to set up the link from Bombardier an its Traxx presentation. Gosh, I am getting older.BigGrin
https://www.eisenbahn-ku...xx-baureihe-187-in-velim

Edited by user 20 April 2019 18:02:24(UTC)  | Reason: Insert forgotten link

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline dickinsonj  
#8 Posted : 19 April 2019 14:57:30(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,142
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Every loco has a battery inside like your car to start the engine. But I have not had a proof for this yet. But I think @Jimmy Thompson showed the proof in his post.


Yes, Jimmy's pictures of that bank of batteries are very interesting - nice post. Cool

This is off topic about an APU in an electric loco but at least it is somewhat related. BigGrin

I don't know about today's diesel engines but I did get the chance to help start one of the V-12 diesels like the ones in EMD F units. It was in a Ohio river boat but it was mostly identical to the ones in locomotives of the time.

Those engines are too large and high compression to crank over with an electric motor and although batteries were used in the procedure, it was indirectly. First you ran an air compressor to build up air pressure which was used for starting the engine, and that compressor was started by a battery. Then you set a series of valves so that the compressed air was routed to some of the cylinders and used to turn over the engine. Once it achieved enough speed fuel was introduced to the cylinders and the compression ignited the fuel and the diesel started to run. Then you reversed the compressed air routing so that the starting cylinders were also operating and you were done. In a boat some of the operations were from the lowest deck and some were on the next higher deck, so it involved a lot of climbing ladders from one level to the other and took a good while. I was pretty young at the time but I would guess that it took 20-30 minutes in all and I finally understood why you didn't just shut engines like that off when they would only need to idle for a short period of time.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.671 seconds.