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Offline lewistrain  
#1 Posted : 03 April 2019 13:50:01(UTC)
lewistrain

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Hello all, i recently purchased some esu decoders amd installed them in some loks.
I wish to increase the top speed of one in particular, it is a sante fe F7 3060.
It has an esu magnet for the motor, bit has retained the 3 pole rotor.
Slow speed running is fine and im happy with it but the top speed is jist too low.
I have gone into the MS2 settings for acc,dec,speed etc and set them appropriately, but to no increase in speed.
I then teied to access the CVs (CV5 in particular) But the CV menu is crossed out and i cannot access them.
I discovered a post on here with similar problems and the solution seemed to involve accessing the decoder through the DCC only mode, i set the MS2 to DCC only and was then able to access the CVs.
CV 5 was already set to max, 255 or something.
So then I placed my little oscilloscope on the motor terminals and ramped the speed up.
The waveforms applied to the motor where absolutely not what i was expecting from a PWM controller, and seemed all over the place, hkw ever the motor ran fine so i assume its all part of the back EMF reading and writing.
Anyway, my other marklin loks are the same, i cannot access CVs from the MS2.
What to do?.
LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 03 April 2019 14:54:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,545
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: lewistrain Go to Quoted Post
Hello all, i recently purchased some esu decoders amd installed them in some loks.
I wish to increase the top speed of one in particular, it is a sante fe F7 3060.
It has an esu magnet for the motor, bit has retained the 3 pole rotor.
Slow speed running is fine and im happy with it but the top speed is jist too low.
I have gone into the MS2 settings for acc,dec,speed etc and set them appropriately, but to no increase in speed.
I then teied to access the CVs (CV5 in particular) But the CV menu is crossed out and i cannot access them.
I discovered a post on here with similar problems and the solution seemed to involve accessing the decoder through the DCC only mode, i set the MS2 to DCC only and was then able to access the CVs.
CV 5 was already set to max, 255 or something.
So then I placed my little oscilloscope on the motor terminals and ramped the speed up.
The waveforms applied to the motor where absolutely not what i was expecting from a PWM controller, and seemed all over the place, hkw ever the motor ran fine so i assume its all part of the back EMF reading and writing.
Anyway, my other marklin loks are the same, i cannot access CVs from the MS2.
What to do?.


1. I suspect you will not get much increase in the top speed without fitting a 5 pole rotor. These are better matched to the magnet assembly for running a DC motor.

2. For setting the CVs I would suggest buying a simple DCC programmer like the SPROG II (http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/), connecting it to a PC and using JMRI program to look at and adjust the CVs. You will find this is a lot simpler than attempting to adjust a single CV at a time and using JMRI also gets you around some of the quirks of programming ESU decoders. The Marklin method of doing it is arcane and error prone.

Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 03 April 2019 15:30:38(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,440
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I would suggest you look at the motor parameter cv's, as these are likely the cause of the slow running. You should find suggested values for each of the Marklin motor types in the decoder manual.

What I do to program the CVs in a lokpilot with my MS2 is I create a new DCC entry with the right address (usually 03), and then I go through programming the cv's one by one. In DCC mode the MS2 will read the cv from the decoder when you select it, which is handy. You then over-write it with the new value. Typically it takes me a few minutes to program the cv's on a new installation, though it might take a bit longer afterwards to fine tune them.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline lewistrain  
#4 Posted : 03 April 2019 22:27:28(UTC)
lewistrain

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
I will have a look at these suggestions, thanks guys.
Its frustrating that such a simple system can require so many extra devices to operate things properly.
Has the DCC world started using USB yet? Im surprised the MS2 and such do not feature usb ports for easy upgrading and connection to software programs etc.
Oh well
LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them.
Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 06 April 2019 16:53:05(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by: lewistrain Go to Quoted Post
I will have a look at these suggestions, thanks guys.
Its frustrating that such a simple system can require so many extra devices to operate things properly.
Has the DCC world started using USB yet? Im surprised the MS2 and such do not feature usb ports for easy upgrading and connection to software programs etc.
Oh well


What has DCC to do with USB? By Märklin's philosophy you use an USB stick at the CS 2/3. These controllers are always required for a MS 2 software update. By this procedure Märklin assures that the loco database from a MS 2 equals with the one in a CS and vv. If you use MM protocol you just type in the name of the loco and/or select it from the database. A very comfortable manually registration at a MS 2, only mfx does it better, automatically.

So indirectly you use USB at a MS 2. But did you ever try the loco cards from Märklin? On it set up all different functions for a loco, doesn't matter, if it is MM DCC mfx etc. Then you stick the card in the controllers slot and your loco is running as programmed by yourself before. But if you are programming manually, be aware that you are doing this on a separated, layout off-line programming track.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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