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Offline tremoloresistor  
#1 Posted : 17 March 2019 12:20:21(UTC)
tremoloresistor

Switzerland   
Joined: 17/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fribourg, Fribourg
Hi!
I have a br38 from 2005 (it is actually in the italian incarnation ar gr 675, model nr 37034). I kept it in its box for the majority of its life, but a couple months ago I was doing ad epoch II session so it got to run... briefly, as the motor inside appears to be completely stuck. After a quick search on the 'net, it seems a common issue with this model. Ok I'm not happy (that model is the most expensive one I've ever bought!) but at least I found a third party replacement.

BUT... how do I remove the old motor? Anybody has any tips on this? It seems stuck inside the boiler and the flywheel is quite bigger than the aperture, so I suppose the boiler must be further disassembled. The manual has not hint on this (the boiler is shown as one piece in the Einzelteile PDF), and I could not see any junction points. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Offline applor  
#2 Posted : 17 March 2019 22:19:43(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Yes I've done this before (on a different version but they are all the same), I have some photos and was going to take some more and do a detailed post in the workshop section when I do it again.
I also have 2 spare motors for sale if you need.

First step is to remove the boiler. It is straight forward, it's described in the manual - just a couple of screws.

You then need to remove the lower frame. That involves disconnecting some parts, they are plastic and its just pipes stuck into holes etc.

After the lower frame is removed you need to remove the cabin and firebox cover. These parts are clipped on, just need to carefully remove.

BR38 1885 motor (1).JPG

The motor itself is attached with a screw. With the firebox and cabin removed, you unscrew the motor and slide it out of the boiler.
There are the two motor wires which will need disconnecting, they run to the front of the boiler and onto the two pin plate which makes contact with the lower body.

BR38 1885 motor (2).JPG

It really wasn't as bad dis-assembling as I thought it would be. Maybe 15 minutes tops. The hard part is putting it back together as you have to painstakingly align all the boiler pipes with the cabin.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline tremoloresistor  
#3 Posted : 18 March 2019 09:44:11(UTC)
tremoloresistor

Switzerland   
Joined: 17/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fribourg, Fribourg
Ahh many thanks for the photos, now it is clear what I need to disconnect. Yes I would be interested in a motor - are you based in Europe?
Thanks!!
Offline skeeterbuck  
#4 Posted : 18 March 2019 11:36:27(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Is this a rather common occurrence with the motor in these engines? I have never needed to replace a can style motor in any of my locos. Maybe mine just don't have enough "miles" on them. I'd be more inclined to check the motor out before buying a replacement.

Chuck
Offline tremoloresistor  
#5 Posted : 18 March 2019 11:44:37(UTC)
tremoloresistor

Switzerland   
Joined: 17/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fribourg, Fribourg
I was reading around and it appears to be a relatively common failure of the Italian flavor of the br38, I'm not sure if they just got a bad batch of motors for this particular edition... I too never had a motor fail, not even in my Lima from the 90s! But the failure seems consistent with what I found on the net, the motor gets completely blocked and will not turn anymore.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 18 March 2019 16:55:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: tremoloresistor Go to Quoted Post
I was reading around and it appears to be a relatively common failure of the Italian flavor of the br38, I'm not sure if they just got a bad batch of motors for this particular edition... I too never had a motor fail, not even in my Lima from the 90s! But the failure seems consistent with what I found on the net, the motor gets completely blocked and will not turn anymore.


Could be it had too much oil, which does seem to be a problem with these motors. This gets on the brushes and ruins them.

Offline applor  
#7 Posted : 19 March 2019 03:32:20(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I have never heard of these motors failing. The same motor was used in all models of the first new series.
The motor used in the second new series is the same but with different transmission to eliminate the engine whine at higher RPM.

tremoloresistor I am in Brisbane, Australia - so there would be a greater shipping cost, though the motors are small/light so it would not be too much - I have 2 spare as I am replacing them with the series 2, which may be what you want to do anyways.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline tremoloresistor  
#8 Posted : 19 March 2019 08:57:55(UTC)
tremoloresistor

Switzerland   
Joined: 17/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fribourg, Fribourg
Ha! Ok yes that is a bit far away :) Do you have a code for the series 2? I can see if I can get spares. I will nevertheless disassemble the whole motor, but since it is completely stuck, I'm not optimistic.
Offline applor  
#9 Posted : 20 March 2019 06:08:55(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: tremoloresistor Go to Quoted Post
Ha! Ok yes that is a bit far away :) Do you have a code for the series 2? I can see if I can get spares. I will nevertheless disassemble the whole motor, but since it is completely stuck, I'm not optimistic.


E180687 currently in stock at Marklin, you won't have problems getting one.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline tremoloresistor  
#10 Posted : 20 March 2019 06:44:11(UTC)
tremoloresistor

Switzerland   
Joined: 17/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fribourg, Fribourg
Thank you very much! It is also much cheaper than the third party replacements I found, I can't wait to have the loco running again.
Offline applor  
#11 Posted : 17 April 2019 06:09:44(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Well the 2 replacement motors with spare part number E180687 have arrived.

Frustratingly these new (series 2) motors are actually very different to the original motors (series 1):
The transmission is mounted inline compared to right angles on the series 1. Also the flywheel is on the opposite end of the motor compared to the transmission.

This is despite the Marklin spare parts diagram for 37028/37035 showing the motors appearance the same as that for my 26549 (Leig set).
Whats more damning is that both spare parts diagrams show the same part number for the drive shaft (37028 vs 26549) - Antriebswelle 219 768
That of course is not possible given series 1 and series 2 motors have their transmission gears mounted 90 degrees different from each other! Cursing


Without having pictures of the series 2 BR38 (such as 37028 or 37035) I cannot determine how the transmission gear couples with the drive shaft on the series 2 BR38, or if its possible to to convert a series 1 BR38 to fit a series 2 motor/transmission.

I am left with the prospect of (hopefully) returning the 2x series 2 motors for a refund and my quest for a silent BR38 will have to stop.

I will end here with a picture of the new series 2 motor. The series 1 motor in the chassis is already shown earlier.


new motor E180687_2.JPG
new motor E180687_1.JPG
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline dickinsonj  
#12 Posted : 17 April 2019 14:07:19(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,677
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Well the 2 replacement motors with spare part number E180687 have arrived.

Frustratingly these new (series 2) motors are actually very different to the original motors (series 1):
The transmission is mounted inline compared to right angles on the series 1. Also the flywheel is on the opposite end of the motor compared to the transmission.

Thanks for the update.

I had assumed that when Märklin shows a replacement motor on their website that it would be a direct replacement and not just something similar which does not really fit into your model. Have you tried contacting them to see if there is some plan or explaination or is it just good luck?
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline applor  
#13 Posted : 18 April 2019 00:35:25(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Well the 2 replacement motors with spare part number E180687 have arrived.

Frustratingly these new (series 2) motors are actually very different to the original motors (series 1):
The transmission is mounted inline compared to right angles on the series 1. Also the flywheel is on the opposite end of the motor compared to the transmission.

Thanks for the update.

I had assumed that when Märklin shows a replacement motor on their website that it would be a direct replacement and not just something similar which does not really fit into your model. Have you tried contacting them to see if there is some plan or explaination or is it just good luck?


Marklin show a different spare motor part for my model (series 1) which is no longer produced. The ambiguity comes when the series 2 models have the new part number but it still has the drive shaft as the series 1 (same part number).
Also, the diagrams for series 1 and 2 motors are the same.

Now I will concede that pictures are not reliable information, sometimes they are wrong - but having the same part number for the drive shaft is an unacceptable mistake.
I suspect they re-used the drawing for the series 2 (37028) and didn't update the drive shaft part number.
I think the actual drive shaft in the series 2 (37028) will be completely different to what the spare parts list - it has to be, given there is no way the series 2 motor will mate with the series 1 drive shaft.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a series 2 (37028) P8 to see what the drive shaft looks like.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by applor
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 18 April 2019 07:06:22(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Eric, yes one has to be very carefully when choosing a spare part or replacing a spare part to an identical loco and yes Märklin has got it wrong on a numerous occasions, where as their own database and spare parts number has been wrong.
a similar situation occurred with my Red Arrow, burnt out the motor and replaced it with a newer model motor bu they weren't the same, lucky enough I was able to fit the new slightly larger motor into the loco.
It is also frustrating when looking at spare parts diagrams with different catalogue numbers but in principal the same loco and with different spare parts for the same illustrated item.
it was easy to work out for instance a coupling which was before a metal/plastic coupling but was later replaced with a short coupling + coupling shaft., lights also had been changed over the years from globes to Led's and one can again notice the different part numbers. (e.g. SBB Ae 6/6 or DB BR 194.)

the only other option available would be a company which specializes in converting Märklin loco motors with Maxon motors which comes with a suitable conversion kit.
the most annoying thing I find is when looking for spare parts for past produced locos there aren't any spare parts available. for instance I've bought a 3416 steam locos andI'm trying to get a front bogie for it but so far its doesn't matter which identical loco I search for there is no spare part for it., it dosen't worry me as I will find some replacement for it even its from Roco or has parts from different locos., the only cruical point is the front axle wheels have to be solid.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline applor  
#15 Posted : 18 April 2019 13:09:54(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Unfortunate to hear you've had similar problems John. It certainly adds waste and anxiety when that's the last thing you need.
Thankfully having purchased the spare parts through MSL, they replied within 24 hours with the response that they are more than happy to refund me the motors.

Sadly though it seems my aspirations for a noise free 26549 are dashed.
I resolved all traction issues though at least, though it would have been a perfect model if I could also have eliminated the noise at higher RPM.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by applor
Offline tremoloresistor  
#16 Posted : 22 April 2019 09:24:33(UTC)
tremoloresistor

Switzerland   
Joined: 17/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fribourg, Fribourg
Ha! Too late, I already bought one motor! Well I guess the I accepted the risk when buying it, so it is not a huge problem, I think I will just resell it (or buy a new br38? that could be tempting).
Do you have a link of the Maxon converting company? I actually use Maxon motors at my company so getting hold of one should not be difficult, but I would probably need the conversion kit.
Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 22 April 2019 10:10:13(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Unfortunate to hear you've had similar problems John. It certainly adds waste and anxiety when that's the last thing you need.
Thankfully having purchased the spare parts through MSL, they replied within 24 hours with the response that they are more than happy to refund me the motors.

Sadly though it seems my aspirations for a noise free 26549 are dashed.
I resolved all traction issues though at least, though it would have been a perfect model if I could also have eliminated the noise at higher RPM.


not off hand but ask the forum they'll know or search this forum for clues: maxon motor conversions: SB Modellbahn, Switzerland

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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