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Offline mbarreto  
#1 Posted : 15 March 2019 16:02:35(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839

Hello,

I bought some 3600 track from the fifties. The motors of the turnouts (3600MWS) work ok, but the turnouts don't turn. Manually they do, so I think it is
due to springs with lower tension then they had originally. Also a crossing 3600 DKWS is missing 2 springs and, although I didn't test it yet, I think the others are also loose.

Do you know what are the P/Ns of these springs and where can I buy them? Does Märklin still sell them?

If you think the problem maybe different from spring tension, please let me know. I already disassembled one of them and understood that they need to really be well assembled (all parts in exact place) for work, but it seemed to me that the problem is the spring tension.

Regards,
Miguel

Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 16 March 2019 13:52:03(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 469
Location: Paris, France
Hi Miguel@
When you remove the spring the switch points should be moving by their own weight.
If they don’t the problem is there.
Another problem is sometimes a derailled train may cause the spring to burn (high current).
You may try in this case to remove it burn it with a lighter and then cool it brutally by immersing it in oil
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
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Offline mbarreto  
#3 Posted : 16 March 2019 18:23:46(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839

Jean,
Thanks for your answer. The points move ok by hand and it is clear that it stops only at the ends.
The coils are ok and work also. The problem is in the spring that links the motor to the "lever" of the points. I can't see the sprin gworking because it is hidden inside, but
it seems that the spring increases its length but doesn't have enough force to move the points lever...
Cheers,
Miguel

Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline Markus Schild  
#4 Posted : 16 March 2019 18:57:08(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,736
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Miguel,

I don't know which spring is the right one. But I only know two springs used in turnouts. 353080 (electric) and 353430 (hand-lever). The first one is still available.

Regards

Markus
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 16 March 2019 19:23:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 469
Location: Paris, France
Hi Miguel

What I meant is the points must move by their own weight when tilting the switch and -of course- the spring is removed.
On most of cases it is dirt and rost in the rivet axle of the point.

Opening a switch back plate (like 5128, 5207, 5202, 5117, 5137) is very easy It is simply clipsed and pry opens with a small screwdriver on the solenoid side.
Here is the inside of a 5137 switch
UserPostedImage
Here is a Double slip switch 5202 (pre 1960 model with invertor contact switches
UserPostedImage
Notice that in this case the springs are thin steel pin that are good for life

Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 16 March 2019 19:49:37(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 469
Location: Paris, France
Hi Miguel

Sorry for misunderstanding you.
Here is the opened 3600 DKWS build 1952 (bottom is removed by prying open the black sheet metal plate on the solenoids side (no screws to remove)
UserPostedImage
The remarks are still true: very little force should move the points
Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
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Offline mbarreto  
#7 Posted : 17 March 2019 10:44:41(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839
s-l1600a.jpgs-l1600.jpg

I wil open the turnouts during the week and will upload images from the bottom.
The plugs of some turnouts are very big and I think they are not Märklin.

Jean,
Thanks for your update. The 3600 DKWS is exactly like the one in your picture and it is completely working except one of the 4 points because the srping is missing.
I have 4 turnouts that are different from the 5202 of your other photo. The mechanism below is different. They are 3600MWS and 2 of them are working, so I wil change the springs between them to verify if that is the problem.
One of the turnouts seems to have one of the coils not working and one that is working has some rust. I think in the end I will have 3 turnouts in good condition and working and maybe I have to scrap the forth that has rust.
All points move easily by hand.

Markus,
Thanks for the P/Ns of the springs. I go try to see if they fit the turnouts and the crossing.



Regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 17 March 2019 11:26:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 469
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

The plugs of some turnouts are very big and I think they are not Märklin.

Hi Miguel

In the early fifties Märklin plugs were longer and their colour was faded (no bright red or green and a creme instead of yellow-may be the effect of time) so they may be original.
I suspect that springs for the later M track switches will be OK to replace the missing one on your 3600DKWS
Cheers

Jean

My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
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Offline mbarreto  
#9 Posted : 17 March 2019 12:04:36(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839

Hi Jean,

Some cable colours are as you say, more brown than yellow and the blue is a bit greenish. Also those cables are thicker.
Those turnouts, I agree, must be from the beginning of the 50ies. One semaphore that came in the box (I bought a box of track) is a 480A that is shown in the catalogue of 1952 but doesn't appear in the catalogue of 1953 where it was replaced by 446/41. The 480A has the lights and the coil working ok, although I still need to test if it cuts the circuit when changing to red, but I think it is working well.

Cheers,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline mbarreto  
#10 Posted : 17 March 2019 13:26:50(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839

Hi again,
I attach these photos for show the cables and plugs.

s-l1600c.jpgs-l1600b.jpg

Cheers,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline mbarreto  
#11 Posted : 17 March 2019 21:45:39(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839

Hello again,

I replaced the spring of the turnout that was not turning with the spring of the rusted one and it worked!
The springs were different. The one that was ont working is bigger, I think probably because lost tension. You can see it in the photo below where the mechanism of
the rusted switch can also be seen. The spring shown is now completely damaged because it was not geting out easily and I forced a bit. In the end I had to open a bit the place where the other spring is placed in the points side.
I am convinced that the P/N used for more recent M switches, the ones Markus gave the P/N, will work. I will order some and will try in the rusted turnout and in the crossing. Before that I will try the motor of the rusted turnout in the other turnout that seems to have one coil fried. If it works, I wil have 3 working turnouts and one that needs a complete refurbish (remove rust, new spring and a new coil).
Markus and Jean, thanks for your help.

s-l1600d.jpg

Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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