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Offline analogmike  
#1 Posted : 10 February 2019 02:48:50(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 627
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Hello all you MARKLIN Lunatics of the world.
Does any one really know, Just how long an analog Lok can sit stalled with lights on without burning up the motor?
I stepped out for a bit (20-30 mins) and I had left a Br-44 going dead slow. When I had returned The old girl was just sitting there on a bad section of track, stalled. I used to do this intentionally when I was a kid...Just to hear the Lok say ''RRRRR - RRRRR - RRRRR''. Particularly the older Br-01.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts;

Mikey

Jet Leg 014.JPG
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by analogmike
Offline hxmiesa  
#2 Posted : 11 February 2019 10:31:23(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,701
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Does any one really know, Just how long an analog Lok can sit stalled with lights on without burning up the motor?
I stepped out for a bit (20-30 mins) and I had left a Br-44 going dead slow. When I had returned The old girl was just sitting there on a bad section of track, stalled. I used to do this intentionally when I was a kid...Just to hear the Lok say ''RRRRR - RRRRR - RRRRR''. Particularly the older Br-01.

Are we talking about an older analog model, still with the old motor?
-Or are we dealing with a modern digital running lok?
Also, you do not say if the lok in question does no longer run after the stalling?!

Because, a digital lok still receives full tension even when running slowly, while an analog lok recieves very little tension, when you want to run it slowly (Not taking into account any other mechanical/electrical faults with the system).
So, an older analog lok will probably handle a 30mins stop better, as tension is so low; No damage to coals and brushes, and no damage to the windings of the armature.
A digital lok, however, might suffer a lot, if the decoder is trying with more and more power to the armature, in order to get it moving. (On the other hand, a good decoder might be able to "cut off" for protection, when overheating)

In reality I have had both older and newer loks stalling for many minutes at a time. (probably around 15mins max), without any damage. -But always with low analog tension, as mentioned.

Edited by user 11 February 2019 14:01:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline analogmike  
#3 Posted : 11 February 2019 13:11:34(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 627
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Does any one really know, Just how long an analog Lok can sit stalled with lights on without burning up the motor?
I stepped out for a bit (20-30 mins) and I had left a Br-44 going dead slow. When I had returned The old girl was just sitting there on a bad section of track, stalled. I used to do this intentionally when I was a kid...Just to hear the Lok say ''RRRRR - RRRRR - RRRRR''. Particularly the older Br-01.

Are we talking about an older analog model, still with the old motor?
-Or are we dealing with a modern digital running lok?
Also, you do not say if the lok in question does no longer run after the stalling?!



Hello Hx,
Digital? Bite your tongue. Only analog here buddy. Old school motors and Blue traffos all the way!Flapper
30 mins. You say? Wow. Me thinks a trip to Ye old junk box is in order for an old lok to see just how long it can be done.
BTW Yes if I raise the voltage the "Stopped" Lok will continue merrily on it's way. No damage.

Mikey
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by analogmike
Offline SteamNut  
#4 Posted : 11 February 2019 14:02:17(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 466
Did you add more smoke fluid before you ran it BigGrin
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Offline hxmiesa  
#5 Posted : 11 February 2019 14:08:57(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,701
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Digital? Bite your tongue. Only analog here buddy. Old school motors and Blue traffos all the way!Flapper
30 mins. You say? Wow. Me thinks a trip to Ye old junk box is in order for an old lok to see just how long it can be done.
BTW Yes if I raise the voltage the "Stopped" Lok will continue merrily on it's way. No damage.

Well, feel free to do the test, and dont forget to write the result here in the forum! ;-)

In that case; As you run analogue like me, you probably already know that that kind of low voltage does absolutly no harm to the old rugged loks.
After writing my first answer in this thread, I remembered that sometimes I have had disengaged waggons stopping just on top of a contact-tracks, continously triggering a signal coil. Now these coils work with the full 16Vac tension, and even affter several minuttes (however probably NOT as many as your 30mins) no damage was done.
That´s what we love about the old rugged Märklin! :-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 11 February 2019 16:59:19(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,671
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Digital? Bite your tongue. Only analog here buddy. Old school motors and Blue traffos all the way!Flapper
30 mins. You say? Wow. Me thinks a trip to Ye old junk box is in order for an old lok to see just how long it can be done.
BTW Yes if I raise the voltage the "Stopped" Lok will continue merrily on it's way. No damage.

Well, feel free to do the test, and dont forget to write the result here in the forum! ;-)

In that case; As you run analogue like me, you probably already know that that kind of low voltage does absolutly no harm to the old rugged loks.
After writing my first answer in this thread, I remembered that sometimes I have had disengaged waggons stopping just on top of a contact-tracks, continously triggering a signal coil. Now these coils work with the full 16Vac tension, and even affter several minuttes (however probably NOT as many as your 30mins) no damage was done.
That´s what we love about the old rugged Märklin! :-)


All true and in fact because analog loks and solenoids were fed with 50 (or 60) Hz AC, a blocked motor or a permanently energized coil becomes basically a purely inductive load (almost...) and current is "naturally" limited.
This is also why , for example, even Fleischmann always supplied their signals and switches with AC .

yes, that's what makes them so rugged!

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline analogmike  
#7 Posted : 12 February 2019 01:59:35(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 627
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Originally Posted by: SteamNut Go to Quoted Post
Did you add more smoke fluid before you ran it BigGrin


I filled the stack before it stalled and it was the same afterward.
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
Offline analogmike  
#8 Posted : 12 February 2019 16:15:10(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 627
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
OK, I did it.

Lok-3066
9- volts AC at the track, (No Lok)
6- Volts AC at the track, (Lok on track)
Test Time- 3 hours
Results- Lok fine. Motor Bogie warm temperature, Not as warm as if Lok were running.
Traffo- Normal, warm, OK

Conclusion: Flapper

Mikey

3066 001.JPG
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by analogmike
Offline Alsterstreek  
#9 Posted : 12 February 2019 16:20:45(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,522
Location: Southwesternmost
Was that a planned or an unplanned intervention ?

;o)
Offline analogmike  
#10 Posted : 12 February 2019 16:29:55(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 627
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Was that a planned or an unplanned intervention ?

;o)


Intervention was planned. After three hours I felt it was unnecessary to gather more data.
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by analogmike
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