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Offline vgokhale  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2019 20:42:08(UTC)
vgokhale

United States   
Joined: 05/02/2019(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Michigan, Farmington Hills
How to find the pull power of HO scale locomotives
Offline jvuye  
#2 Posted : 06 February 2019 11:41:30(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,603
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: vgokhale Go to Quoted Post
How to find the pull power of HO scale locomotives


Depends on loco, layout and many other things, but essentially don't expect magically acurate replies to a one liner question on a complex subject coming from a total stranger
Rough calculation: no adherence tyres ? about 10% of loco weight, with adherence tyres? about 40% .
Results may vary.
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 06 February 2019 13:16:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,188
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: vgokhale Go to Quoted Post
How to find the pull power of HO scale locomotives


Very little. I heard someone took one clubbing and it didn't pull all night! BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 06 February 2019 15:04:13(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,486
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I have a special interest in the pulling power of locos and just today I've tried different locos from different manufacturers but especially tested locos from Märklin and I wasn't that impressed compared with other locos from other manufacturers.
We always talk about metal locos and Märklin is famous for it but older type locos before Märklin changed the motor and the driver system to all 3 or 4 axles, the older 2 axle driven (4 rubber tyres) locos werne't that good in pulling wagons compared with Roco, Piko or Jägerdorfer.

for instance the 3652 converted SBB Crocodile with all metal construction didn't pull the Roco Crocodile (this is mostly metal except the middle part) but because it has worm gears and is driven over all 6 axles it pulled the Marklin Crocodile,

one bad result today from a Roco Co-Co loco Rh 1010 (AC) from Roco didn't pull the wagons up the hill whereas the Piko Rh 193 "Vectron" did it without any trouble but the loco had a problem and this has happened before with roco locos, the drive shaft with a worm gear and a coupler, the coupler became loose just enough to turn the coupler but nothing else, on level ground there was no sign of it the coupler was loose, so I fixed it with superglue and now its doing its job as it suppose to do.

besides all of this I've always said regardless which manufacturer they all have quite strong motors in these locos until Märklin changed the motor type completely in its latest locos, I haven't tried them out in ways how long will they last or what load can you add to such locos., the decoders I'm using have also a motor overload protection so it wouldn't take long to find if I overload any of these locos, particular Traxx type.
If we go back even further with the robust all metal block locos like SBB Ae 4/4. DB BR 44, BR 18, they all had motors with a large disk armatures and over the years I've converting them with a 5 pole motor which gave them enormous power, so we had weight, strong motor but only 2 rubber tyres, I've gone another step furthert and added another axle with rubber tyres and I think now we've got a balance = torque = weight and adhesion. locos in question BR 44 (3011), SBB RE 4/4 (3014)

Lots of you most probably never realized all Co-Co locos from Märklin, e.g. BR 103, BR 194, BR 151 etc etc. only 2 axles actually touched the track the middle axle was just raised enough and if you look at all your Co-Co locos you will find the middle axle is like new with out any track marks on it at all.

with this abnormality it didn't change the pulling power as the weight was enough with 4 rubber tyres to haul a long train, had it had 6 driven axle regardless if the loco is all metal or not the Märklin Co-Co locos would have all been outclassed.

when we look at rubber tyres, the material they use hasn't changed in 50 years or so and we all have replaced them either oil got onto them or to much of a load was behind the loco. at one stage I've looked at producing rubber tyres without them stretching and also having a better adhesive quality but the outlay was to much so I scrapped the idea., ESU has mentioned their new rubber tyre on their new V 60 loco is a new design., be interesting hwo much they would charge for a spare part ?

So far my best performing loco (and there are many many more to go) is my Piko ÖBB Vectron Rh 193, I had this loco running for quite while and by holding it in my hand afterwards I didn't feel any heat coming from it and it pulled 29 carriages up the hill constantly over its running time., it has 4 rubber tyres and 4 axles are powered,

another abnormality with Märklin locos is the pick up shoe in earlier models, a.) only 2 or 3 axles had been powered and with AC locos from Roco you always lost a powered axle do to the slider.
I'm not going to mention HAg locos because they are in a different class alltogether.

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Melbourne marklin  
#5 Posted : 12 February 2019 09:48:36(UTC)
Melbourne marklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
John are Hag better or worse? Ben looking at them on line.
A newbie to this hobby, All Marklin HO, Swiss only, across all eras, largeish 5m x 4m layout in planning, small table top training table in operation.
Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 12 February 2019 10:29:35(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,486
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Melbourne marklin Go to Quoted Post
John are Hag better or worse? Ben looking at them on line.


In my opinion there is no comparison, HAG has produced metal locos for a long long time including Märklin, Märklin went off and produced locos with plastic parts, HAG stayed with metal and also improved the detail and electronic side of it. of curse this comparison can only be made with electric locos.
I've always wanted HAG locos but when you look at the new price they are not affordable for the ordinary train enthusiast (Euro 750.00 and upwards)
but if you find a private seller(s) like I've found these locos can be much cheaper (40-50% cheaper) , I buy DC locos, a.) I don't have to change the motor, b.) AC you have to change the motor and this also depends how old the motor is (when it was manufactured).

I think HAG was always in its own class and stayed this way to the present day. another story is of course brass locos such from Fulgerex which again they're in their own class and here we can also see cheaper prices with older made locos.

John


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Melbourne marklin  
#7 Posted : 12 February 2019 12:11:41(UTC)
Melbourne marklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
750 euro is really getting up there , still you often, not always get what you pay for!
A newbie to this hobby, All Marklin HO, Swiss only, across all eras, largeish 5m x 4m layout in planning, small table top training table in operation.
Offline Melbourne marklin  
#8 Posted : 12 February 2019 12:22:16(UTC)
Melbourne marklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
John can get a used but mint SBB Re 4/4 digital ac lok for $395 Aud inc freight from the uk.
A newbie to this hobby, All Marklin HO, Swiss only, across all eras, largeish 5m x 4m layout in planning, small table top training table in operation.
Offline utkan  
#9 Posted : 12 February 2019 12:26:56(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,087
Location: Istanbul,
https://www.marklin-user...-The-Game-is-Over/page11

you may find some crazy facts about your question...Blink
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by utkan
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