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Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 06 January 2019 23:36:39(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hi guys Cool

I tried to connect 2 boosters. It didn't work (see my thread 60215 and 60175).

I considered buying a cs3 (see my thread 60216 or 60226)

I connected the wires for the power on the cs2 portion. This is correct after redoing some connections (inevitable short circuits)

Today I connected the power to the part managed by the booster (only one is connected, so two divisions of the lyaout instead of 3 as planned).

Problems !!!

The current intensity on the rails is very low (measured with a voltmeter).

The red led on the booster is not bright as it should be, the cs2 indicates 4.48 amps on the booster portion, the voltage on the same portion reaches 13.4 volts.

No electromagnetic items on the keyboard (booster portion) work.

Obviously there is another problem besides the bug explained in my thread 60215 and 60175.

I'm sorry, but I'm not the guy who takes things apart to fix things, to try to do something by myself. I know my limits .

To each his own job. Anything you want in accounting but in digital I'm going my way.

Conclusion: everything is in a box: cs2, 2 x 60175 and everything goes to Mike's store.

And there's no way you're talking to me about cs3: I don't want it!!!!Unless...if the cost of repairing the cs2 is too high or the repair impossible.

Dr. Mike will get into the game and everything will work.

He's got fairy fingers, and he's an ace at digital Marklin.

In the meantime the layout is on standby and I will work in Madame's rooms: in addition to the layout, I still need to complete the house work.

My work schedule was as follows: week I : layout and train room week II : other rooms and now , from tomorrow Madame's rooms

Have a nice evening

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline applor  
#2 Posted : 07 January 2019 13:22:49(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,347
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Sorry to hear you've had such problems with the boosters.

I didn't want the added complexity myself so I ran all my decoders and accessories off a separate power so that boosters are not required.
Probably not something you can do so hopefully you can get your boosters working.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 08 January 2019 00:34:59(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Sorry to hear you've had such problems with the boosters.

I didn't want the added complexity myself so I ran all my decoders and accessories off a separate power so that boosters are not required.
Probably not something you can do so hopefully you can get your boosters working.


Thank you Applor

I would like to know more about the independent process you used to avoid boosters. Do you use a cs2, cs3?

Thank you

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline rbw993  
#4 Posted : 08 January 2019 20:22:34(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 553
Sorry to here you are having problems. I have a CS2 and 4 boosters powered by 5 6005x (120V transformers). It all works fine. CS2 is used only to power and switch turnouts and read S88 feedback. The boosters power the track segments.

A thought - did you insulate each booster track section from each other?

Regards,
Roger
Offline Thewolf  
#5 Posted : 08 January 2019 21:57:26(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
Sorry to here you are having problems. I have a CS2 and 4 boosters powered by 5 6005x (120V transformers). It all works fine. CS2 is used only to power and switch turnouts and read S88 feedback. The boosters power the track segments.

A thought - did you insulate each booster track section from each other?

Regards,
Roger



Yes...I did
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline applor  
#6 Posted : 08 January 2019 22:21:56(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,347
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Sorry to hear you've had such problems with the boosters.

I didn't want the added complexity myself so I ran all my decoders and accessories off a separate power so that boosters are not required.
Probably not something you can do so hopefully you can get your boosters working.


Thank you Applor

I would like to know more about the independent process you used to avoid boosters. Do you use a cs2, cs3?

Thank you

Thewolf


I am using a CS2 with K track. The various decoders I use (ESU, Viessmann, Lenz) are able to be supplied from external power so I have those connected to their own transformer.
These operate my turnout solenoids, servos and signals.
All of my turnout lanterns, signal lights, buildings etc. are all wired to their own transformer as well.
Lastly I am using the LDT HSI-88 module for my S88 detection, which is wired and powered completely separate from the CS2 as well.

What this means is that even though I have a large layout, my CS2 is powering my track/locomotives only and nothing else, so boosters are not necessary.
A number of Marklin users also follow this method.

This may be difficult or not possible depending on what you are using. If you are using C track with trackbed solenoids and individual decoders I don't think you can do this as there are only 2 wires for combined digital signal and power. If you are using a standalone decoder like the K84 then you can.

I am still doing testing with automation so I don't have many trains running, certainly not even half as many at one time as I plan to.
However should I find the CS2 running out of power, I will look at purchasing an ESU ECOS which supports 7 amps current, double what my CS2 can do.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Thewolf  
#7 Posted : 09 January 2019 15:00:36(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post




I am using a CS2 with K track. The various decoders I use (ESU, Viessmann, Lenz) are able to be supplied from external power so I have those connected to their own transformer.
These operate my turnout solenoids, servos and signals.
All of my turnout lanterns, signal lights, buildings etc. are all wired to their own transformer as well.
Lastly I am using the LDT HSI-88 module for my S88 detection, which is wired and powered completely separate from the CS2 as well.

What this means is that even though I have a large layout, my CS2 is powering my track/locomotives only and nothing else, so boosters are not necessary.
A number of Marklin users also follow this method.

This may be difficult or not possible depending on what you are using. If you are using C track with trackbed solenoids and individual decoders I don't think you can do this as there are only 2 wires for combined digital signal and power. If you are using a standalone decoder like the K84 then you can.

I am still doing testing with automation so I don't have many trains running, certainly not even half as many at one time as I plan to.
However should I find the CS2 running out of power, I will look at purchasing an ESU ECOS which supports 7 amps current, double what my CS2 can do.


Thank you ApplorCool

Yes I use k84...6 in total...for the moment

So you're writing that it would be possible to establish a process like yours?

But I know my limits and I don't know how to do it.

So I'm obliged to continue as I am now, hoping Mike or Marklin can fix the cs2. Obviously mine has a problem.

I want to avoid buying a cs3

Have a nice day

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline applor  
#8 Posted : 10 January 2019 03:19:29(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,347
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post




I am using a CS2 with K track. The various decoders I use (ESU, Viessmann, Lenz) are able to be supplied from external power so I have those connected to their own transformer.
These operate my turnout solenoids, servos and signals.
All of my turnout lanterns, signal lights, buildings etc. are all wired to their own transformer as well.
Lastly I am using the LDT HSI-88 module for my S88 detection, which is wired and powered completely separate from the CS2 as well.

What this means is that even though I have a large layout, my CS2 is powering my track/locomotives only and nothing else, so boosters are not necessary.
A number of Marklin users also follow this method.

This may be difficult or not possible depending on what you are using. If you are using C track with trackbed solenoids and individual decoders I don't think you can do this as there are only 2 wires for combined digital signal and power. If you are using a standalone decoder like the K84 then you can.

I am still doing testing with automation so I don't have many trains running, certainly not even half as many at one time as I plan to.
However should I find the CS2 running out of power, I will look at purchasing an ESU ECOS which supports 7 amps current, double what my CS2 can do.


Thank you ApplorCool

Yes I use k84...6 in total...for the moment

So you're writing that it would be possible to establish a process like yours?

But I know my limits and I don't know how to do it.

So I'm obliged to continue as I am now, hoping Mike or Marklin can fix the cs2. Obviously mine has a problem.

I want to avoid buying a cs3

Have a nice day

Thewolf


Like everything in life, it is just a case of having to learn:) Though I was wrong when I said K84 which is a latching relay and has been discontinued - from Marklin you'd need the M84 to use external power.

Looking at the K84 manual 60840 it does shows how to wire a lantern to a separate transformer. Last picture (bottom right)
https://static.maerklin....7d71825cd71434542178.pdf

Though that would not apply for turnouts.

Is there someone nearby that can lend you a CS2 or CS3 to confirm yours is faulty and not the boosters/wiring?
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Thewolf  
#9 Posted : 10 January 2019 15:47:22(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post



Like everything in life, it is just a case of having to learn:) Though I was wrong when I said K84 which is a latching relay and has been discontinued - from Marklin you'd need the M84 to use external power.

Looking at the K84 manual 60840 it does shows how to wire a lantern to a separate transformer. Last picture (bottom right)
https://static.maerklin....7d71825cd71434542178.pdf

Though that would not apply for turnouts.

Is there someone nearby that can lend you a CS2 or CS3 to confirm yours is faulty and not the boosters/wiring?


Thank you ApplorCool

About your question, I don't know anyone in the area.

About K84, I use M84 and as far as the lamps are concerned, the scheme you're talking about is the one I use for lighting the city's lamps.

Where I block is how to combine the m84, track C, cs2 and independent power on the rails like your system ?

A forum member, rbw993, has 4 boosters connected to his cs2 and everything works.

Not me, no.

There's no reason it shouldn't work for me....unless there's a cs2 problem, which I definitely think is the case.

I will reactivate my thread on the cs3 because I found information on another forum that is confusing with some comments here

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 10 January 2019 19:41:36(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
The current intensity on the rails is very low (measured with a voltmeter).

The red led on the booster is not bright as it should be, the cs2 indicates 4.48 amps on the booster portion, the voltage on the same portion reaches 13.4 volts.


Are you sure you don't have a derailed locomotive or wagon somewhere?

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Thewolf  
#11 Posted : 10 January 2019 20:26:34(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
The current intensity on the rails is very low (measured with a voltmeter).

The red led on the booster is not bright as it should be, the cs2 indicates 4.48 amps on the booster portion, the voltage on the same portion reaches 13.4 volts.


Are you sure you don't have a derailed locomotive or wagon somewhere?

Per.

Cool



Nothing
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline applor  
#12 Posted : 10 January 2019 21:46:15(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,347
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


Thank you ApplorCool

About your question, I don't know anyone in the area.

About K84, I use M84 and as far as the lamps are concerned, the scheme you're talking about is the one I use for lighting the city's lamps.

Where I block is how to combine the m84, track C, cs2 and independent power on the rails like your system ?

A forum member, rbw993, has 4 boosters connected to his cs2 and everything works.

Not me, no.

There's no reason it shouldn't work for me....unless there's a cs2 problem, which I definitely think is the case.

I will reactivate my thread on the cs3 because I found information on another forum that is confusing with some comments here

Thewolf



Well you aren't combining the different power on the rails. Your CS2 O + B are connected to the studs/rails and that's it.

Your second power supply is wired directly to the M84 decoder.

Unfortunately in this area Marklin is very behind the competition, as other manufacturers have provided separate terminals for track signal and power for many years!Confused

Looking at the M84 manual on page 14
https://static.maerklin....0cd3f3481a1504787016.pdf

Marklin here describe what you need to do, stating:
"The decoder can also be connected to the 66360/66365 switched mode power pack (only in conjunction with 60822) (here power is not taken from the track
and the power demanded from the track is thereby less). "

So it seems (unlike with other manufacturers) that you need an additional PSU item 60822, along with the separate power supply transformer 66360/66365 Blink Cursing
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Thewolf  
#13 Posted : 11 January 2019 00:19:36(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post


Well you aren't combining the different power on the rails. Your CS2 O + B are connected to the studs/rails and that's it.

Your second power supply is wired directly to the M84 decoder.

Unfortunately in this area Marklin is very behind the competition, as other manufacturers have provided separate terminals for track signal and power for many years!Confused

Looking at the M84 manual on page 14
https://static.maerklin....0cd3f3481a1504787016.pdf

Marklin here describe what you need to do, stating:
"The decoder can also be connected to the 66360/66365 switched mode power pack (only in conjunction with 60822) (here power is not taken from the track
and the power demanded from the track is thereby less). "

So it seems (unlike with other manufacturers) that you need an additional PSU item 60822, along with the separate power supply transformer 66360/66365 Blink Cursing


Thank you again Applor...I really appreciate your explanations and your helpCool

I attach a diagram showing what I understood to avoid using boosters

sans booster.pdf (153kb) downloaded 13 time(s).

You must read 66360/66365 on the diagram...sorry

1- If I understood everything correctly, it is the combination 60822/60360/60365 that acts as a booster?

2-For example, if we want to amplify the power even more, we connect a second set 60822/66360/66365 to a 60842 or do something else?

Have a nice evening

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline applor  
#14 Posted : 11 January 2019 04:56:55(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,347
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


Thank you again Applor...I really appreciate your explanations and your helpCool

I attach a diagram showing what I understood to avoid using boosters

sans booster.pdf (153kb) downloaded 13 time(s).

You must read 66360/66365 on the diagram...sorry

1- If I understood everything correctly, it is the combination 60822/60360/60365 that acts as a booster?

2-For example, if we want to amplify the power even more, we connect a second set 60822/66360/66365 to a 60842 or do something else?

Have a nice evening

Thewolf


1) the 60360/60365 (in reality any standard ~16VAC PSU) is the actual power source. The 60822 is essentially just a 2A filter and overload protection.
I am new to the Marklin modules (as mentioned I used others) but you can also read about the 60822 here:
https://translate.google...ZRYdD_gQsZRlUakp55541hMQ

Note that this does not boost the power from your CS2, it just prevents your decoders from drawing current from the CS2 allowing more for the trains.

Also, as per the thread the question is asked if a 60822 is even really required. In truth no. Here is what the author says:

"Märklin says yes and has to. Because filtering is important for compliance with legal regulations. Suppose you do not see it that close. Can one then not simply supply the decoder m83 / m84 directly with a switching power supply 66361, the connections are there? As it turns out, this is practically all right. You can even plug several decoders side by side and supply them from one power supply.
What is lost, in addition to the filtering, the hedge. In the event of a short circuit, a large current could thus flow through the modules and destroy them. So better leave. "

2) The 60822 can be used for multiple decoders until its limit of 2amps is reached.


I must ask, how many trains are you trying to run at once and is your CS2 reaching its current limit?
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 11 January 2019 09:45:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,433
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
1) the 60360/60365 (in reality any standard ~16VAC PSU) is the actual power source.
IIRC there is no bridge rectifier in the 60822. I would not try it with AC. The PSUs are 18 V DC with 2 A.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Thewolf  
#16 Posted : 11 January 2019 15:29:27(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post




1) the 60360/60365 (in reality any standard ~16VAC PSU) is the actual power source. The 60822 is essentially just a 2A filter and overload protection.
I am new to the Marklin modules (as mentioned I used others) but you can also read about the 60822 here:
https://translate.google...ZRYdD_gQsZRlUakp55541hMQ

Note that this does not boost the power from your CS2, it just prevents your decoders from drawing current from the CS2 allowing more for the trains.

Also, as per the thread the question is asked if a 60822 is even really required. In truth no. Here is what the author says:

"Märklin says yes and has to. Because filtering is important for compliance with legal regulations. Suppose you do not see it that close. Can one then not simply supply the decoder m83 / m84 directly with a switching power supply 66361, the connections are there? As it turns out, this is practically all right. You can even plug several decoders side by side and supply them from one power supply.
What is lost, in addition to the filtering, the hedge. In the event of a short circuit, a large current could thus flow through the modules and destroy them. So better leave. "

2) The 60822 can be used for multiple decoders until its limit of 2amps is reached.


I must ask, how many trains are you trying to run at once and is your CS2 reaching its current limit?


Hi Applor Cool

1) I also thought that somehow I missed a logical explanation.

2) The layout is under construction and the cs2 is on the way to Mike's store.

So I don't know how to answer that.

As for the number of trains, I would like between 3 and 4, but 4 seems to me very much

Thank you for all

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#17 Posted : 11 January 2019 15:31:33(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,486
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
1) the 60360/60365 (in reality any standard ~16VAC PSU) is the actual power source.
IIRC there is no bridge rectifier in the 60822. I would not try it with AC. The PSUs are 18 V DC with 2 A.



Hi Tom Cool

Neither do I.

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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