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Offline applor  
#1 Posted : 02 January 2019 13:14:47(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hi all,

A bit of a tricky one but maybe someone knows so I will give it a shot.

I have a Marklin MFX railcar VT 8.5 (39080) that I want to permanently swap its forward/reverse. The controller would be showing forward but in reality the railcar drives backwards.

I am hoping there is a CV bit that does this change for Marklin MFX decoders but I don't know if they do or what CV it is.

ESU for example have CV29 Bit 0 which reverses the direction of travel (forward becomes reverse).
The description however says it is only relevant for DCC standards and so I highly doubt it would be the same or even work for a Marklin MFX decoder.

You may be thinking I'm daft at this stage as to why?

Well the reason is the 39080 railcar has the front bogie powered with both axles having traction tyres.
Unfortunately this means I can't run this train with automation as the S88 detection points don't trigger until the rear bogie!

Easy solution is to just run it permanently in reverse.

Thanks

Edited by user 13 November 2019 22:14:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Online H0  
#2 Posted : 02 January 2019 13:22:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,258
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

The 39080 has an ESU decoder. And somewhere in the mfx configuration space there is a bit that swaps the direction. Do you have a Central Station?

The ESU documentation for CV 29 indicates that bits 1 and 5 are only relevant for DCC. The direction bit is bit 0 and it is relevant for mfx.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline applor  
#3 Posted : 03 January 2019 00:16:06(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

The 39080 has an ESU decoder. And somewhere in the mfx configuration space there is a bit that swaps the direction. Do you have a Central Station?

The ESU documentation for CV 29 indicates that bits 1 and 5 are only relevant for DCC. The direction bit is bit 0 and it is relevant for mfx.


Yes I have a CS2 (and ESU lokprogrammer). So you are saying that CV 29 bit 0 for directional change is relevant for MFX as well and what I need to change?

I will attempt change of it today and post how I go. Thanks for your help!



EDIT: Changed CV29 using my CS2 and it worked. Forwards and reverse are now swapped Cool

Edited by user 03 January 2019 05:43:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline applor  
#4 Posted : 03 January 2019 12:49:21(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Well it turns out there is a remaining issue that was unforeseen:

When the locomotive temporarily loses power, it remembers its existing speed but in the wrong direction!

I've found when testing that as the railcar drives over a tiny spot on my track and temporarily loses power, it then begins driving at the same speed in the opposite direction.
This means it then hits the same dead spot again and then begins driving in the opposite direction.
It therefore remains permanently stuck at the dead spot as it keeps driving back and forth over it again and againLOL

Laughs aside, it's rather annoying.

Looking at the manual, do you think this could be fixed with CV124 Auxiliary settings - Store direction (Motorola®)?
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Purellum  
#5 Posted : 03 January 2019 13:46:25(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
It therefore remains permanently stuck at the dead spot as it keeps driving back and forth over it again and again


Brilliant BigGrin

You have invented a "dead spot detector", which shows you exactly where the dead spots are BigGrin

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Online H0  
#6 Posted : 03 January 2019 14:07:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,258
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Looking at the manual, do you think this could be fixed with CV124 Auxiliary settings - Store direction (Motorola®)?
I suggest to give that CV a try.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline applor  
#7 Posted : 04 January 2019 04:31:29(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Looking at the manual, do you think this could be fixed with CV124 Auxiliary settings - Store direction (Motorola®)?
I suggest to give that CV a try.



I am sure this is it but CV124 does not appear in the list after choosing edit CV in the locomotive page of the CS2Confused
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Online H0  
#8 Posted : 07 January 2019 13:31:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,258
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
I can try using my lokprogrammer to change the CV. For some reason though my lokprogrammer can never read CV's from any decoder I've tried and I am hesitant trying to blindly write to it.
The Lokprogrammer has problems with C Sine locos. You should be able to change the decoder settings when you temporarily install it in a loco with a conventional motor (or the ESU decoder tester).
Don't try the DCC CV screen, read the complete decoder settings with the Lokprogrammer software.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Online H0  
#9 Posted : 07 January 2019 20:44:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,258
Location: DE-NW
Here's a screenshot of the CS2 PC software:
UserPostedImage

The bit to set is "Richtung" under "Memory B" on the "Misc" tab.
I didn't check a real ESU decoder on a real CS2, but IIRC this screen will also be shown for those.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline applor  
#10 Posted : 08 January 2019 11:06:01(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
That appears to have done the trick - thanks so much Tom!
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline applor  
#11 Posted : 11 January 2019 07:28:01(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
edit: nevermind. It is working properly, I happened to get a ghost event on a different train exactly when the VT 8.5 happened to be at the dead spot and I thought the problem was still there. Blushing

edit edit: I retract that previous edit, I did see the VT8.5 do another reverse on me. I am not sure on the trigger though as it was in a different location. I need to test further.

Edited by user 19 January 2019 05:20:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline applor  
#12 Posted : 02 November 2019 02:27:25(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Finally started running my trains again ready for some guests and since the track is a bit intermittent I am having massive problems with this VT 8.5 as it is constantly reversing whenever it hits a rough spot.

I have a feeling it may have to do with the relay activated dual sliders.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline applor  
#13 Posted : 13 November 2019 22:16:27(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Decided to bite the bullet and just swap directions with the wiring.

Motor L and R were swapped along with the front/rear lights. I also bridged the slider changeover relay so now both sliders are always active. Removed the swap direction bit.

All mods are reversible and problem permanently solved.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline dickinsonj  
#14 Posted : 28 February 2020 16:28:37(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,444
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Decided to bite the bullet and just swap directions with the wiring.


I want to pick up here on a topic I started in an HO section thread about my 37604/43114 VT 11.5 train set. I should have just started in the digital section but I was hoping for a simpler solution, which was not to be. I was pointed to this thread by Eric (@applor) in my earlier thread: https://www.marklin-user...-37604-Headlight-Problem

About 9 months ago I put my 37604 away in perfect working order. Yesterday I cleaned and oiled the motors and wheels. I did not apply power to my track until the entire train was connected, but when I did the direction of travel was out of phase with the lights. It is also out of phase with the slider, taking power from the motor car with the white headlights, which is now the rear unit in the train.

Antonio (@amartinezv) suggested separating the power cars and toggling the motor direction, which made sense. Unfortunately the reverse relay is mounted on a board which also hosts the decoder mounting board, so that simple approach did not work. I knew that there were CVs associated with lighting and motor direction and this thread helped me find them, where I was sure a solution might lie.

Here us a summary of what I have tried so far:

1. I did a decoder reset, which unfortunately made no difference
2. I toggled Motor CV#29 bit "Motor/Licht" on and off with no effect
3. I toggled Misc CV#74 Memory B, bit "Richtung" on and off with no effect.

I have no idea why changing those bits in the CVs did not have any apparent effect. I went back and checked to see that my CV changes had persisted by reloading them and they had remained where I had set them.

At this point I can't think of anything else to do but swap the motor wires. I don't see a need to bridge the slider relay because it stays perfectly in synch with the lights. If the motors just ran in the opposite direction it would be working fine. But that seems like a poor solution because who is to say when the direction state will toggle again? I almost need small wire connectors that would let me swap motor wires in a plug in fashion, but I have never found male/female connectors for wires that small.

If anyone has any ideas of things to try beyond what I have done so far I would love to hear them. Otherwise it is back into its box for my much loved VT 11.5 train. ThumbDown
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline thing fish  
#15 Posted : 28 February 2020 20:10:43(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
About 9 months ago I put my 37604 away in perfect working order. Yesterday I cleaned and oiled the motors and wheels. I did not apply power to my track until the entire train was connected, but when I did the direction of travel was out of phase with the lights.


Put it back into the closet, wait for 6 months and check again LOL

Joke aside, I'm very much interested in the solution as I have the same beauty and I'd be very very upset if this kinda thing happens to it.

C.
Offline dickinsonj  
#16 Posted : 28 February 2020 20:22:39(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,444
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: thing fish Go to Quoted Post
Joke aside, I'm very much interested in the solution as I have the same beauty and I'd be very very upset if this kinda thing happens to it.

C.


I hear that.

This train is a all time favorite of mine and I hate to have it not working correctly. I also have several other trains with that same slider switchover and now I wonder how long until one of them fails as well. Actually, consider the ICE4 with two sliders and interior lighting that can be turned on and off as well as changing its color. How long do we all think that is going to work as designed?
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline thing fish  
#17 Posted : 28 February 2020 21:56:33(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
... How long do we all think that is going to work as designed?


Until, I hope, we all become electronics engineers, and master solderers!

Well, I take this type of petty repairs as the lighter part of the hobby. I enjoy messing with low cost locos for mods and weathering and all; but not the 37604, please.

C.

Offline dickinsonj  
#18 Posted : 01 March 2020 17:13:10(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,444
Location: United States
I just wanted to close out my part of this excellent thread. I tried to shift the discussion about my 37604 to this thread but it did not work. I did receive a lot of useful suggestions in the other thread, although ultimately none of them helped.

So I have now tried everything that I (and others) could think of and have given up and packed my VT 11.5 away. Short of doing what Applor did to his loco I don't see anything else to try.

RIP my pretty train. Crying
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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