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Wheel disassembly DHG 500 3144
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Offline DG1000S  
#1 Posted : 16 December 2018 20:34:54(UTC)
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DG1000S

Sweden   
Joined: 17/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Stockholms lan, Stockholm
Hi, I need some advice on the DHG 500 model and its wheels.

I recently purchased a Märklin 3144 DHG 500 (Swedish V10) for DCC conversion.
A friend of mine showed me his blue DCC converted DHG 500 in action and it ran really bad.

I guess this is a result of the Märklin design where the middle metal wheel is slightly raised (for being able to negotiate the tightest of the tightest of M curved track I suppose) leaving the loco with basically one metal wheel axel for pickup, since it is only the front axel that is all metal, the rear most axle carries the rubber tires.

So, I assume my DHG 500 will have the same problem with picking up the current, see the attached photos of the slightly raised middle axel.

Is there a simple way to swap/replace the rubber tire axle for an all metal axel?
I like the old chassie so swapping it for the Trix based DHG 500 chassie is not an option.

I have not seen the last incarnation of the old all wheel drive chassie before the Trix version is it identical to the old version?

Some kind of axel puller is required for this job, I guess.

IMG_1141.JPG
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Offline jvuye  
#2 Posted : 17 December 2018 11:31:03(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: DG1000S Go to Quoted Post
Hi, I need some advice on the DHG 500 model and its wheels.

I recently purchased a Märklin 3144 DHG 500 (Swedish V10) for DCC conversion.
A friend of mine showed me his blue DCC converted DHG 500 in action and it ran really bad.

I guess this is a result of the Märklin design where the middle metal wheel is slightly raised (for being able to negotiate the tightest of the tightest of M curved track I suppose) leaving the loco with basically one metal wheel axel for pickup, since it is only the front axel that is all metal, the rear most axle carries the rubber tires.

So, I assume my DHG 500 will have the same problem with picking up the current, see the attached photos of the slightly raised middle axel.

Is there a simple way to swap/replace the rubber tire axle for an all metal axel?
I like the old chassie so swapping it for the Trix based DHG 500 chassie is not an option.

I have not seen the last incarnation of the old all wheel drive chassie before the Trix version is it identical to the old version?

Some kind of axel puller is required for this job, I guess.
.......


Yes , there is a readily available set of tools from Fohrmann to allow you to do a good job at disassembly and above all proper re-assembly and gauging of the axles
Please note the (inner) spacing between wheel flanges is different from 3 rail to 2 rail .
This is often overlooked and people complain of derailments especially on switches!

https://www.fohrmann.com...ini-wheel-puller-h0.html
https://www.fohrmann.com/en/wheel-spacer.html
https://www.fohrmann.com/en/rail-gauge-h0.html

But before going too far ...consider this:
Why would you want to reduce the tractive effort of you loco by as much as 80%?
Normally the center (unpowered) axle has a small spring to push lightly against the track.
Why not using it for an additional set of contacts?
You should normally have use the Marklin/Trix 2 rail pickup contact part (that screws on the chassi in place of the 3-rail pick-up shoe
It's really easy to add a contact by soldering a litlle piece of 0.5 mm bronze wire on the insulated wheel side.

This way you could preserve the loco's performance.

Just a suggestion

Hope this helps
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline DG1000S  
#3 Posted : 18 December 2018 21:19:04(UTC)
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DG1000S

Sweden   
Joined: 17/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Stockholms lan, Stockholm
Thanks, I guess I will do a wheel change as explained in the link below, where the tires are place diagonally. This is not the Trix version but the old all wheel powered one.

Are all metal DHG 500s like this, with the middle wheel slightly raised? Seems like a waste designing a loco with all axels powered but not allowing the middle one to be useful.

http://www.maerklin-samm.../03078/03078_m_umbau.htm
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 18 December 2018 21:33:32(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: DG1000S Go to Quoted Post
Thanks, I guess I will do a wheel change as explained in the link below, where the tires are place diagonally. This is not the Trix version but the old all wheel powered one.

Are all metal DHG 500s like this, with the middle wheel slightly raised? Seems like a waste designing a loco with all axels powered but not allowing the middle one to be useful.

http://www.maerklin-samm.../03078/03078_m_umbau.htm


The centre axle is sprung so that it is pushed down onto the track. With the spring in place it should line up with the other wheels. Without the spring the ground return will be less effective because it will only be through the front axle.

I moved the wheels with the rubber tyres around to help with traction but I found that the ground contact was much worse, so I ended up putting it back to the original configuration. It's better to have reduced traction than to have a loco that hesitates all around the track.


Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline DG1000S  
#5 Posted : 18 December 2018 21:45:51(UTC)
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DG1000S

Sweden   
Joined: 17/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Stockholms lan, Stockholm
Well, this is still the really old one with non sprung axles.
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 19 December 2018 13:58:10(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: DG1000S Go to Quoted Post
Well, this is still the really old one with non sprung axles.


My 3044 from 1969 has the spring on the centre axle. I thought all these models had them?

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline jvuye  
#7 Posted : 19 December 2018 15:43:34(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: DG1000S Go to Quoted Post
...
Are all metal DHG 500s like this, with the middle wheel slightly raised? Seems like a waste designing a loco with all axels powered but not allowing the middle one to be useful.
...


It doesn't matter how many axles in total really transmit the tractive effort!

It's the total weight of the loco multiplied by the friction coefficient.

Doesn't matter if that same weight is spread over 2 or 12 axles! it 's still W x Cf in total

It's just physics. Wink
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline DG1000S  
#8 Posted : 19 December 2018 20:23:02(UTC)
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DG1000S

Sweden   
Joined: 17/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Stockholms lan, Stockholm
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DG1000S Go to Quoted Post
Well, this is still the really old one with non sprung axles.


My 3044 from 1969 has the spring on the centre axle. I thought all these models had them?



Interesting, mine is very rigid, no springing action what so ever.
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Offline dominator  
#9 Posted : 19 December 2018 23:29:50(UTC)
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dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,196
Location: Kerikeri
Consider this. I have an old 3080 that ran really badly. I mentioned it on this forum and someone suggested the axles were badly worn. They were right, so I turned up new axles on my lathe and rebuilt the loco. It runs really well now. The worn axles were not transferring the current from the rails to the motor.
Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dominator
Offline 60904  
#10 Posted : 24 December 2018 10:07:33(UTC)
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60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 315
I cannot remember of any springs in the old chassis but maybe they were added during later production. It is important that the axles are free of any dirt and grease. Clean the it up and this engine will run as all the others.
Greetings
Martin
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Offline DG1000S  
#11 Posted : 31 December 2018 09:24:06(UTC)
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DG1000S

Sweden   
Joined: 17/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Stockholms lan, Stockholm
Mine is brand new so the wheels are in excellent condition.
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Offline jvuye  
#12 Posted : 31 December 2018 10:23:28(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: DG1000S Go to Quoted Post
Mine is brand new so the wheels are in excellent condition.


Probably true, visually speaking.
I have seen many cases of "factory new, never used" locos that needed a thorough clean up of their axles and bearing, simply because the (original) oil had dried up inside.
I'd use a little lighter fluid to clean that "invisible" surface contamination...Wink
Hope this helps
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
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