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Offline Deepak  
#1 Posted : 02 November 2018 13:11:39(UTC)
Deepak

India   
Joined: 12/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Bangalore
Signals positioning - how to go about it

Various possibilities and request for confirmation from the experts
1) At the entry and exit of a station - this one seems simple
- need to position one at the entry of a station - Green for vacant station can enter / Red for Occupied do not enter
- need to position one at the exit of a station - Green for time for train to start - can leave / Red for Not yet time to start

2) At the turnout - approaching the divergence
- Which signal should i place here - Green/Yellow OR Green/Red OR Semaphore
- What will it indicate

3) At the turnouts - there are 2 approach points
- Do I place 2 signals for each approach

4) At the yard - where the main line diverges into 5 yard lines
- Do I place 5 signals each facing out from the yard and 1 facing towards the yard

Many other possibilities and options - I would like to understand in detail.

My layout is taking shape and to give an idea - pic below of a draft - would have about 48 turnouts with 3 stations (2 platforms each with 4 lines)


DraftLayout2.jpgone.jpgtwo.jpgthree.jpg
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 02 November 2018 14:58:44(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Deepak,

You can find answers to all your questions in the Marklin signalling handbook.

Signalbook 0340 (English).pdf (1,568kb) downloaded 260 time(s).
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#3 Posted : 02 November 2018 18:28:12(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I am not sure if you are aiming for prototypical signalling or not. If so, then 'green' does not mean it is time for the train to leave.

An exit signal is often green already when the train comes in to the station to stop. The timetable determines if it is time for the train to leave. So a train may wait at a green signal until it is time to leave and then it will depart.

Obviously, if it is time to depart, a red signal will not allow the departure.

When there are curves in the track, a set of signals running across the tracks must be in a straight line. The prevents the driver from seeing the signals out of track order.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Minok  
#4 Posted : 02 November 2018 20:55:25(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Light or Semaphore - functionally can be equivalent - smaphore (the old tech) mainly now on branch lines without electrical often. If it fits the style of service/line size.

There are also the yellow/green aspects, which indicate proceed slowly - such as you are allowed to go but slower, such as taking turnouts to change tracks/direction, or at tight bends. Then if you want, there are also the pre-signals that inform the driver about the actual signal that they just cannot see yet due to obstructions/curves.

In German stations, at the platforms there are platform mounted departure signals (diagonal lines I think) that mimic the platform personels traditional waving of the green circle, to signal the train is ready to go (for when the loco driver may not be able to see down the platform as the platform personnel signal good to go (and whistle). That signals its time for the train to leave. That is, of course as stated, independant of the track signal which indicates whether pulling out of and crossing turn outs-joining the mainline has been cleared by the dispatcher (due to other traffic).
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Bones  
#5 Posted : 14 October 2019 02:59:10(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Queensland
I have never heard yet of a railway signal being green upon arrival at a station unless the train is meant to continue but for some reason has been told to wait by traffic control due to a
train being in front and the distance between the trains is too short

They try to keep a 2 minute headway between trains for saftey
Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 14 October 2019 03:37:26(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
I have never heard yet of a railway signal being green upon arrival at a station unless the train is meant to continue but for some reason has been told to wait by traffic control due to a
train being in front and the distance between the trains is too short

They try to keep a 2 minute headway between trains for saftey


Just watch cab view videos of German train on YouTube. You will see the exit signal is often green when the train arrives. The train then stops at the platform and departs when the schedule says it should.

It makes perfect sense, and does not contradict a 2 minute space between trains.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline morsing  
#7 Posted : 20 October 2019 07:47:38(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
I have never heard yet of a railway signal being green upon arrival at a station unless the train is meant to continue but for some reason has been told to wait by traffic control due to a
train being in front and the distance between the trains is too short

They try to keep a 2 minute headway between trains for saftey


They do that in Denmark, haven't noticed in Britain. Signals are for safety, not scheduling.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline klarinettmeister  
#8 Posted : 20 October 2019 17:53:16(UTC)
klarinettmeister

Sweden   
Joined: 13/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 798
Location: Kirseberg
In Sweden I know of a train station that has a departure signal that shows green of the track after the signal is free. Then it's up to the driver to remember to stop at the station. I've been twice on a train that has passed the station. Then there's always a embarresed driver in the speaker systems and tells the passengers to take another train back from the next station. 😀
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Offline Jabez  
#9 Posted : 20 October 2019 22:07:31(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post


In German stations, at the platforms there are platform mounted departure signals (diagonal lines I think) that mimic the platform personels traditional waving of the green circle, to signal the train is ready to go

Here in Belgium this platform signal is a circle of green lights. Viesmann 4518 is a model of this so I suspect this is now the pattern in Germany too.
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline Thewolf  
#10 Posted : 21 October 2019 03:05:36(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post


In German stations, at the platforms there are platform mounted departure signals (diagonal lines I think) that mimic the platform personels traditional waving of the green circle, to signal the train is ready to go

Here in Belgium this platform signal is a circle of green lights. Viesmann 4518 is a model of this so I suspect this is now the pattern in Germany too.
Jabez



Hi JabezCool

It has been a long time since I left my native country, but I remember a circle with white signals, is that possible?

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Jabez  
#11 Posted : 21 October 2019 20:20:15(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Serge,
I don't ride the SNCB much these days, but it is a circle of dot lights, not a cross.. Maybe they are white rather than green and I was misled by the Viesmann model.
Jabez
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 21 October 2019 21:09:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
In German stations, at the platforms there are platform mounted departure signals (diagonal lines I think) that mimic the platform personels traditional waving of the green circle, to signal the train is ready to go (for when the loco driver may not be able to see down the platform as the platform personnel signal good to go (and whistle). That signals its time for the train to leave.
There are diagonal white lines that allow the conductor on the platform to see if the exit signal allows the train to depart.
At larger stations with long-distance trains there are green circles at the exit signals - these are controlled by the conductor on the platform or the station personnel and instruct the train driver to go.

The diagonal white lines mimic the appearance of semaphore signals.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Thewolf  
#13 Posted : 21 October 2019 21:25:18(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
For Jabez Cool

post-4558-0-93734900-1388349833.gif

That's what I was talking about.

If you click on the image, you will see how the signal works in the foreground and the second in the background

Serge
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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