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Offline Drongo  
#1 Posted : 20 August 2018 12:50:09(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,065
Location: Sydney, NSW
I have 4 m84 units on my layout, using an EcoS with TrainContoller. The m84's are causing a short circuit causing the EcoS to "Stop". When the EcoS button "go" is pressed all the m84 connections flash and then the overload switches the EcoS to "stop". Does anyone have an idea as to what could be causing this to happen ?

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 20 August 2018 21:13:25(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,514
Can you show us how you have connected them to the digital signal as well as any other accessories?
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Minok  
#3 Posted : 20 August 2018 21:57:40(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,182
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
It may well be there is a short circuit condition on one of the M84s internally or maybe the outputs (are you using the track power to power whatever is connected to the M84's or are they powered by separate power supply?)

Have you narrowed it down to one specific M84? (eg unplug all M84s out of the system, reset the Ecos, then make sure it works without the M84s, then add one of the M84s in, test, repeat till you have found the one or several units that are the problem) - or ist all of them. 4 failing at once is highly unlikely unless there was an electrical event (overload, lighting, etc) that affected the entire power grid.

Once you found the unit(s) causing the short -of course disconnect their outputs and add in one at a time to find the specific outputs causing the short. It may be on an output, or the circuit on the M84 that powers one of the outputs.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
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Offline Drongo  
#4 Posted : 21 August 2018 08:07:48(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,065
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
It may well be there is a short circuit condition on one of the M84s internally or maybe the outputs (are you using the track power to power whatever is connected to the M84's or are they powered by separate power supply?)

Have you narrowed it down to one specific M84? (eg unplug all M84s out of the system, reset the Ecos, then make sure it works without the M84s, then add one of the M84s in, test, repeat till you have found the one or several units that are the problem) - or ist all of them. 4 failing at once is highly unlikely unless there was an electrical event (overload, lighting, etc) that affected the entire power grid.

Once you found the unit(s) causing the short -of course disconnect their outputs and add in one at a time to find the specific outputs causing the short. It may be on an output, or the circuit on the M84 that powers one of the outputs.


Thank you very much for the advice. I will do this tomorrow as I also believe that it's a rouge m84, I have turned off the power to all the accessories and the problem still exists, so I'm guessing it's a rouge m84. I'll let you know how I go.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline xxup  
#5 Posted : 21 August 2018 08:48:19(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,062
Location: Australia
I have never seen anyone have as much trouble with Marklin stuff as you do. This bit is tongue in cheek -> is there any chance that you are wearing wool socks on a nylon carpet, and then sparking things that you touch as your hair stands up. Crying
Adrian
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Offline Drongo  
#6 Posted : 22 August 2018 12:50:32(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,065
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I have never seen anyone have as much trouble with Marklin stuff as you do. This bit is tongue in cheek -> is there any chance that you are wearing wool socks on a nylon carpet, and then sparking things that you touch as your hair stands up. Crying


Hi Adrian, yes I am having a lot of trouble with Marklin stuff. Let me explain what I'm doing. I, with a friend, have a very small business manufacturing layouts for a company that owns and operates nursing homes. So far, we have made 5 layouts in the greater Sydney area and of course this requires a lot of train stuff etc. The layouts are controlled with TrainController and we've designed the layouts to operate automatically by pressing a button. This activates a schedule which runs for about 5 minutes with trains stopping at stations, blowing whistles etc. On average, each location has the button pressed about 10 times a day, therefore the trains run for less than 1 hour a day which is less than 30 hours a month. In my opinion, this is not excessive usage and the locos break down regularly - and when I say break down, I mean decoders or motors fail, or wires come loose as a result of badly soldered joints. I've changed to another train manufacturer and so far their locos are much more reliable. IMHO Marklin has lost the plot and being taken over by a toy manufacturer, Seiber are only interested in producing a "toy" quality standard. I don't believe they have any regard for the Marklin brand or reputation. I could be wrong, but there's no indication to me that they really care about the quality any more.

Back to this problem regarding the m84's. In this instance, there was no problems with any Marklin products - it was a problem with the PC Computer running TC - faulty RAM. The RAM was replaced and all is working well.

Back to the Marklin quality problem. I'm sure there are other members on this forum that have experienced the decline in the Marklin quality. I have written many times to Marklin service (Frank Mayer) - I've even spoken to him personally, but he showed no interest in what I said. He was quite rude - when I was talking to him, he would often look away and talk to someone else. In Australia, that's rude. In Germany - - - - - - I've also written to Florian Seiber via his personal assistant, however, he doesn't have time to reply. Again - rude.

There - I've said it as it is and if anyone from Marklin reads this, then contact me and prove me wrong. I'd love to know that Marklin is still trying to had a great product.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 22 August 2018 13:57:59(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,982
Location: Scotland
Many of this type of thread involves items other than this made by Marklin. No reason why various types of control or decoders etc can not be mixed with Marklin but I wonder just how many problems there would be if a layout was just all Marklin ...like mine where I have no probs with anything. I know I am probably lucky but our OP here does appear to have more things going wrong than most. With all my locos I had one decoder blow which was my fault by adding new lights to the loco and all the others run well.

What is not good is the response from Marklin which looks to be unacceptable.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#8 Posted : 22 August 2018 16:28:57(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,514
perhaps for such layouts, simpler and more reliable locomotives should be selected. I think an hour of running every day is a lot.

Do the layouts sit with track power ON when the trains are not running? If so, those decoders are powered on all the time.

Edited by user 22 August 2018 22:02:11(UTC)  | Reason: typos

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Minok  
#9 Posted : 22 August 2018 17:01:01(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,182
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post


Back to this problem regarding the m84's. In this instance, there was no problems with any Marklin products - it was a problem with the PC Computer running TC - faulty RAM. The RAM was replaced and all is working well.


Hold on. So the m84s were suspect and what was happening is the EcoS was flashing short circuit from the computer connected to it having some bad RAM? How would bad memory in a PC cause the EcoS to signal a short condition on the power load side ?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Johnvr  
#10 Posted : 22 August 2018 17:44:25(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,203
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Many of this type of thread involves items other than this made by Marklin. No reason why various types of control or decoders etc can not be mixed with Marklin but I wonder just how many problems there would be if a layout was just all Marklin ...like mine where I have no probs with anything. I know I am probably lucky but our OP here does appear to have more things going wrong than most. With all my locos I had one decoder blow which was my fault by adding new lights to the loco and all the others run well.

What is not good is the response from Marklin which looks to be unacceptable.


Hello David,

My layout and controllers and trains and decoders are all 100% Marklin, and I have no problems whatsoever.
Only happy trains.

RegardsBigGrin
John

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 22 August 2018 23:46:57(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,400
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
perhaps for such layouts, simpler and more reliable locomotives should be selected. I think an hour of running every day is a lot.


I would agree, and based on the 30 hours/month he calculated above that means each loco needs an oil each month based on the 'oil every 40 hours of operation' advice in the instruction books that come with locos.

Running such a layout is going to require a rolling stand-in of locos that can be cycled through the layout while those taken off the layout are serviced.

If all the layouts are similar then this represents a complete set of locos being cycled through all the layouts. A set comes off Layout A this weekend, spends a week being serviced at home and goes to Layout B next weekend, with the locos removed from Layout B serviced in the following week before going to Layout C ...



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Offline xxup  
#12 Posted : 23 August 2018 05:33:06(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,062
Location: Australia
Ah! Now I see what is going on..

What do the Miniature Wonderland people do for loco selection and maintenance? I know that most of their layout is two-rail, but I have seen Marklin track in parts of their layouts. I can't remember the specifics and it has been almost six years since I have seen the layouts.
Adrian
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Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 23 August 2018 06:17:51(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,182
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline blid  
#14 Posted : 23 August 2018 11:43:41(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 163
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I don't know which version of TC you have but in Gold there is infornation hidden in a window called Maintenace. It shows the time each engine has been running under TC controll. You can also set the maintenance intervall and have TC to do what you want when it is time for service.

In the latest version you can create a variable that counts the number of times the button is pressed.

There is an operation for (track) power off. The schedule can end with that. When track power is off TC buttons are frozen as far as I understand. The only way to get going again is to press STOP on CS2 or similar or the Power-button in TC. It is possible to create a flagman to catch this event and start your shedule, but maybe this is not a good idea.

The MTH decoders in my 1-gauge engines keeps track of time and distance run. Maybe Marklin does the same whithout telling us? If so, they know exactly how much your engines have been runnning when they come back to Marklin.

What you are doing it is something I think Marklin and Seiber should encurage - if not support and sponsor!
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, CS1 Reloaded on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC.
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Offline Drongo  
#15 Posted : 24 August 2018 02:10:27(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,065
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
I don't know which version of TC you have but in Gold there is infornation hidden in a window called Maintenace. It shows the time each engine has been running under TC controll. You can also set the maintenance intervall and have TC to do what you want when it is time for service.

In the latest version you can create a variable that counts the number of times the button is pressed.

There is an operation for (track) power off. The schedule can end with that. When track power is off TC buttons are frozen as far as I understand. The only way to get going again is to press STOP on CS2 or similar or the Power-button in TC. It is possible to create a flagman to catch this event and start your shedule, but maybe this is not a good idea.

The MTH decoders in my 1-gauge engines keeps track of time and distance run. Maybe Marklin does the same whithout telling us? If so, they know exactly how much your engines have been runnning when they come back to Marklin.

What you are doing it is something I think Marklin and Seiber should encurage - if not support and sponsor!


Thank you very much for your information - I will investigate your idea of using "maintenance" on TC. Currently, I have TC setup to record the number of times the button is pressed and I've setup a second counter to record the number of times the button is pressed while the schedule is running - the little blighters like pressing the button BigGrin BTW I'm using version 8 gold.

Regarding your point about Marklin supporting and encouraging my work, well that hits a sore point. Marklin have asked me for photos and description of our operation and I sent this to them many months ago. Several emails to Frank requesting update on the situation and no replies. I know Frank is the public relations minister at Marklin, however, sometimes I feel he's also the minister for propaganda.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline TEEWolf  
#16 Posted : 28 August 2018 16:21:34(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,455
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Ah! Now I see what is going on..

What do the Miniature Wonderland people do for loco selection and maintenance? I know that most of their layout is two-rail, but I have seen Marklin track in parts of their layouts. I can't remember the specifics and it has been almost six years since I have seen the layouts.


Are you sure they are using AC and DC parallel at the same time?

When I was at the MiWuLa I recognized several special cleaning trains spread over all modules. Always a loco and 3 cleaning cars, normally one pushing and 2 wagon were pulled by the loco. I realized the same cleaning train from one module about an hour later on another modul again. Also I did a guided tour "behind the scenes" as well. I asked the guide about their cleaning concept. He confirmed that all modules are connected together and a train needs about 3 1/2 hours for one "round trip" over all modules. This trip is done by the cleaner trains. But how is it possible to run a layout with 2-rails and 3-rails for the same moment?

Also I know, when they started their MRR in 2001 with Knuffingen, this was all done by Märklin 3-rail equipment. Where shall be there room for a 2-rail DC layout? Do you know it?

P.S. In the video from @Minok post #13 you only see 3-rail tracks. So it had to be AC.
Offline nevw  
#17 Posted : 26 September 2018 08:00:10(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,046
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Blushing as I write , I haD A "FAULTY" Ecos a few weeks ago. did lots of things to trace it. Purchased a New one. THen found I had a feeder track fitted incorrectly. that foxed the problem, I now have a n Ecos for sale.
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
User is suspended until 30/01/2021 11:18:10(UTC) Goofy  
#18 Posted : 26 September 2018 08:37:41(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,331
Originally Posted by: nevw Go to Quoted Post
Blushing as I write , I haD A "FAULTY" Ecos a few weeks ago. did lots of things to trace it. Purchased a New one. THen found I had a feeder track fitted incorrectly. that foxed the problem, I now have a n Ecos for sale.


It´s easy to swap the wires to connect the tracks.
As rules say...always follow the color to right connect like B and 0.
This rule is for both 2 and 3 rail system.
So does for the decoder like m83/m84.
Some people use strange wires too.
I use copper wires with twin copper.
Make sure that twin copper is not touching together on the B and 0.
It´s make short circuit!

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