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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 06 June 2018 11:56:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi,

we talk so much about Märklin quality and I thought I'll bring this to your attention. these 4 tubes come from a very expensive train set.
somewhere along the design line something went wrong, to cover up the mistake the best way to fix it is use 4 tubes.
see if you can guess from which train they come from.

DSC07056.JPG

Edited by user 07 June 2018 02:30:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 08 June 2018 11:29:22(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I can reveal now these tubes have been added to the Märklin Senator, the interior at the 4 corners is short hence they have added these tubes to cover up their design fault and at the same time prevents the table lights to shine through.

John
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Offline Gregor  
#3 Posted : 08 June 2018 14:29:02(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
John, how dare you call this clearance-elimination-feature to prevent movement induced rattling noises a design fault?
Blink
Gregor
Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 08 June 2018 17:27:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
John, how dare you call this clearance-elimination-feature to prevent movement induced rattling noises a design fault?
Blink
Gregor


I think it prevents rattle snakes to get in.Blink

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5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 10 June 2018 04:24:52(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
How did I find out ?, a friend of mine has the Senator with 2 extension sets, unfortunately he broke one of the coupling pin and asked me to fix it., which I did but as I've dismantled the carriage I've noticed these 4 tubes lying on my work bench, not knowing where they came from I've opened another carriage and found 4 tubes tucked in at the 4 corners. (they are not listed as a spare part)
so someone made a mistake, it wasn't picked up by the quality control and than the decision was made we cannot afford to design a new interior a solution was reached to cover it up with 4 tubes., most probably when they ran the senator with its table light functions on, they than realized the design fault (light shining through) : this is my own conclusion.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 10 June 2018 11:28:31(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Same problem with the Trix senator...
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 10 June 2018 13:07:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Why is it a problem?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 10 June 2018 15:29:26(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Why is it a problem?


Ray,

problem (not using the appropriate word) could also mean: same thing with Trix Senator.
I think Märklin realized they had a problem on their hand when the table light (led's) shined through inside the carriage due to a design fault by adding 4 tubes at each corner they've solved the problem.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 11 June 2018 00:00:58(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Why is it a problem?


Ray,

problem (not using the appropriate word) could also mean: same thing with Trix Senator.
I think Märklin realized they had a problem on their hand when the table light (led's) shined through inside the carriage due to a design fault by adding 4 tubes at each corner they've solved the problem.

John


Marklin have used rubber or plastic tubes in other locomotives to prevent light leakage. Why is it a problem in this case? Is this just another example of finding fault where none exists?

Maybe the design is not the best for this model, but the fact that they chose to insert rubber pieces to prevent light leakage is not a problem as far as I can see.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 11 June 2018 03:07:32(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Ray,

by the way I've never mentioned there is a problem with this train set., all I've done is mentioned they've used 4 rubber tubes because of a design fault.

the fact is, the design of the interior had a shortcoming and by adding tubes to prevent light leaking through, solved the faulty design. that is all, I'm not finding a fault the fault is present and I've pointed it out. it does not effect the price, the overall design, performance etc. etc., if I would have spare cash I would buy this train set any time.

like so many posts, as a conversation or discussion goes on, words are added to an existing topic and at the same time the topic content is than re shaped to a problem topic.
My topic wasn't about to score points.

John

Edited by user 11 June 2018 08:35:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline David Dewar  
#11 Posted : 11 June 2018 11:23:11(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
I presume that these tubes are not in anyway visible during any running. What shows in my view is the lack of quality control. I would have thought that before a design is approved some form of the coach which although not painted or finished etc would be tested before a production run.
Marklin do appear to be producing and selling items these days which are not 100% and perhaps they are too eager to get models and controllers to the market before they have been properly tested. In the case of the coaches though it appears the fault was found before they were put on sale.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 11 June 2018 13:14:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I presume that these tubes are not in anyway visible during any running. What shows in my view is the lack of quality control. I would have thought that before a design is approved some form of the coach which although not painted or finished etc would be tested before a production run.
Marklin do appear to be producing and selling items these days which are not 100% and perhaps they are too eager to get models and controllers to the market before they have been properly tested. In the case of the coaches though it appears the fault was found before they were put on sale.


You're right they are not visible from the outside and you wouldn't notice it even if you take the housing off. it only came to my notice when I suddenly had these 4 tubes lying on my workbench and I had no idea where they came from until I took another carriage apart.

I assume when the designed the interior it never occurred to them that the corner bits were missing and in my opinion it wouldn't be something which would stick out for a mile. I wouldn't know when they've realized there was something wrong, when they assembled the carriage or when they tested the carriage. I would think it would have been more likely when they tested the train with lights shining through.

Märklin must have been annoyed with it, placing 4 tubes at each corner, the extra work which was involved instead of having the interior seating being fitted only

As I've mentioned I'm not trying to score points to point out what has happened and its not a topic one has to get exited about it or drag it through mud and lightning. I think it is one of the more insignificant mishaps Märklin has experienced.

John


without tube
Senator tubes.JPG


with tube
Senator tubes (1).JPG
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Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 12 June 2018 09:26:58(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi John, my apologies if you took my comments as a criticism of your posts. In fact I was referring to Goofy's comment in post #6 above:

"Same problem with the Trix senator..."

To which I answered "why is it a problem?" because up to this point no-one had said it was!

Goofy seems to take every opportunity to jump on the bandwagon when there is even just a hint of criticism of Marklin, and frankly I find this a touch irritating!

I hope this clears up the misunderstanding!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#14 Posted : 12 June 2018 10:58:36(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hmmmm... I have occasionally found these tubes lying on my layout and workbench.
About 3 mm long, about 2mm diameter? Is that correct.

Obviously did not affect my running trains.

Mercedes Benz motor cars are also fitted with various rubbery\silicone type bits, but like Maerklin, I would say they are necessary for finishing a product to a desired quality.
There is certainly no lack of control, and no design fault indicated in the use of these materials.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline David Dewar  
#15 Posted : 12 June 2018 12:25:12(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hmmmm... I have occasionally found these tubes lying on my layout and workbench.
About 3 mm long, about 2mm diameter? Is that correct.

Obviously did not affect my running trains.

Mercedes Benz motor cars are also fitted with various rubbery\silicone type bits, but like Maerklin, I would say they are necessary for finishing a product to a desired quality.
There is certainly no lack of control, and no design fault indicated in the use of these materials.

Kimball


Hi Kimball. As you know I defend Marklin on almost everything but in this case I do think it is a design fault.
As for Mercedes I have had more trouble with them than any car I have owned but to be fair they do go well when working as they should.
On all the coaches I have I have not seen these tubes anywhere and think they were added later to this model as an after thought when light was showing through.

Cars use this type of part to avoid rattles etc but I would have thought that a model rail item would not require this type of addition. Some metal plates are added to coaches for weight which is acceptable.

However my view that Marklin make things better than anybody for the railway modeller remains in place.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 12 June 2018 12:27:29(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hmmmm... I have occasionally found these tubes lying on my layout and workbench.
About 3 mm long, about 2mm diameter? Is that correct.

Obviously did not affect my running trains.

Mercedes Benz motor cars are also fitted with various rubbery\silicone type bits, but like Maerklin, I would say they are necessary for finishing a product to a desired quality.
There is certainly no lack of control, and no design fault indicated in the use of these materials.

Kimball


Kimball, these tubes that I found may belong to a different quality control category: they are about 6mm x 4mm BigGrin

I've also noticed this with Mercedes Benz motor cars: they have 4 rubber tyres LOL

John
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