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Offline kimballthurlow  
#1 Posted : 02 May 2018 09:42:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,667
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all,
From around 1942, the German Railways (DRB) began painting revenue freight vehicles (open and closed wagons) with a plain DR lettering in lieu of "Deutsche Reichsbahn". This style of lettering is evident on post-war vehicles where the zone letters (such as Brit-US-Zone) were also appended under DR, starting in 1947.

Would anyone on the forum know how the lettering on the freight Pwg (1. Güterzug-Begleitwagen - Freight train escort car, or 2. Güterzug-Gepäckwagen - Freight train baggage car) was applied in this same period?

I am unable to find photos of these vehicles for the 1942-47 period.
Thanks and regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 02 May 2018 13:05:00(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,667
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all,
Member ShannonN who lives about 3 hours north of me, has come up with this photo.
Pwgs 41

I suspect this is what I am looking for, but need another confirmation.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 04 May 2018 00:30:25(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,667
Location: Brisbane, Australia
I am certain I now have the answers.

From around 1938 when the DRG received a corporate transformation to Deutsche Reichsbahn (DRB), it appears lettering of freight vehicles became simplified.
The model of the Pwg in the late 1930s set 45090 is very likely to be authentic, and sets the trend. Gone is the eagle symbol, and the lettering on a black background.

This simplified lettering is typical, as shown on a Pwgs-41. In this case without an ownership lettering such as DR.
PWgs-41

In Maerklins 48810 set, a type Pwgs-41 freight train baggage car was included. The Maerklin research article on this set says "....... built by SGP in Vienna in 1943. Apart from substitution of the letters "DB" for "DR", it appears exactly as delivered to the DRB."
Pwgs-41 48110 era IIIa

Again in the 47891 set, a model Pwg is included, with the same style of lettering.
It is correct to say that apart from "Brit-US-Zone" appearing as the bottom line of the data set, this scheme would be in existence from at least 1942.
Pwg 47891 era IIIa

Kimball

Edited by user 05 May 2018 00:59:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline ShannonN  
#4 Posted : 04 May 2018 06:31:14(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I am certain I now have the answers.

From around 1938 when the DRG received a corporate transformation to Deutsche Reichsbahn (DRB), it appears lettering of freight vehicles became simplified.
The model of the Pwg in the late 1930s set is very likely to be authentic, and sets the trend. Gone is the eagle symbol, and the lettering on a black background.

Kimball

Hi Kimball
So the placement on the carriage of the lettering isn't a matter of authenticity? I see in the proto photo a central placement of lettering. But in the models an end placement I'm a bit confused. I always thought to be prototypical all these things needed to be exact as was in the real world era?




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Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 05 May 2018 00:59:05(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,667
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
...
Hi Kimball
So the placement on the carriage of the lettering isn't a matter of authenticity? I see in the proto photo a central placement of lettering. But in the models an end placement I'm a bit confused. I always thought to be prototypical all these things needed to be exact as was in the real world era?


Hi Shannon,
From my reading of railway subjects, a lot of paint and lettering could be different between workshops.
So I doubt that the authenticity of one model over another is a worthy subject, unless you have complete research facilities like Maerklin and others.

The first picture of the Pwgs-41 in my post is most likely late era III, so I have probably included it in error, aka fake news.
But it does illustrate the style of lettering.
And I have also received a reply on another forum, where the lettering on the Maerklin 48810 Pwgs-41 is proven authentic.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 05 May 2018 05:02:20(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Just a quick note SGP stands for Simmering Graz Pauker and some parts had been manufactured in Graz and Vienna.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 05 May 2018 08:05:50(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,667
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thank you John, very interesting.

Also John, you will find on this page other manufacturers of these Austrian built vehicles:
restored PWG original builders

These included Westwaggon and Rastatt.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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