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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 28 April 2018 05:54:46(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
it happened in Austria, the province of Styria and the station in question is Mürzzuschlag, at the foot of the Semmering the train came from Graz (the capital of Styria) was heading for Praha and someone forgot to change the turnout.

Edited by user 03 May 2018 02:11:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline MaerklinLife  
#2 Posted : 28 April 2018 06:04:36(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Even in real life it always happen to the really expensive "models"...
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#3 Posted : 28 April 2018 13:38:50(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
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I can't imagine that setting turnouts relies on human memory to get done. There would be a lot of accidents. My guess is that multiple technical failures occured.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 28 April 2018 16:47:41(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I can't imagine that setting turnouts relies on human memory to get done. There would be a lot of accidents. My guess is that multiple technical failures occured.


When watching the video a goods train entered the same track before and than the Railjet followed the line in the opposite direction, I was a bit puzzled why the loco driver didn't notice it before ? someone forgot to change the turnout.

John

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5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 28 April 2018 17:49:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I can't imagine that setting turnouts relies on human memory to get done. There would be a lot of accidents. My guess is that multiple technical failures occured.


When watching the video a goods train entered the same track before and than the Railjet followed the line in the opposite direction, I was a bit puzzled why the loco driver didn't notice it before ? someone forgot to change the turnout.

John



When you look at the start of the relevant section, the loco that is pushing the train is only just over the point, so I suspect he driver stopped as fast as he could without throwing all the passengers off their seats. He wouldn't be able to stop too fast for fear of knocking over any passengers who were already up off their seats to get off the train, and he wouldn't notice the point was wrong until he was on it as he had just come around a curve.

Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 29 April 2018 17:11:46(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
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John, I think you are missing my point. (no pun intended)

I know the goods train needed the turnout set that way, my point is that setting the turnouts is probably not something that some human needs to do. It has to be all automated and tied into the routing systems. If humans had to remember such things we would see this (and worse) a lot.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
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Offline applor  
#7 Posted : 03 May 2018 01:11:45(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,654
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
John, I think you are missing my point. (no pun intended)

I know the goods train needed the turnout set that way, my point is that setting the turnouts is probably not something that some human needs to do. It has to be all automated and tied into the routing systems. If humans had to remember such things we would see this (and worse) a lot.


I don't know that train control system Austria use but I can explain with what we use:

With the UTC software our train controllers set a route from A to B and all turnouts and signals are set automatically and activate/lock that route for travel.
Should a turnout fail to throw, then an alarm would be generated for the controller. I believe the signals would stay red, since the route is not locked, preventing a train from proceeding.

So yes you are correct in that controllers do not normally set individual turnouts, though they have the ability to do so (assuming they are not locked as part of a route)

If they used such a system and the controller failed to set the route, then the signals would never have been set to green (proceed) for the train and so it should have stopped.

modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline Robert Davies  
#8 Posted : 03 May 2018 15:32:57(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
I suspect that the Einfahrsignal (or whatever the Austrian equivalent is called) displays Green over Yellow for both the through track and the platform track so the driver does not know which track he is routed on to until he gets there. This train clearly is booked to call at Murzzuschlag but when the driver finds he is on the through line (no platforms) he makes a rapid stop. He then backs out with local assistance (the chap with the radio waving his arms) although he does also have a clear shunting signal (2 white lights) which shows that the route is set and locked. Finally the route is reset into the platform line and the train has another go.

This is all perfectly safe and is just down to the signaller having set the wrong route. There is no question of points having been 'forgotten' - as has been said, the route setting system prevents this - but it is one of the few downsides of speed (as opposed to direction) signalling.

Edited by user 04 May 2018 18:30:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Robert
Era III - IV
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Offline Bones  
#9 Posted : 05 May 2018 08:58:25(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Queensland
Its more likely point failure rather than signals

I'm not sure if there's a way they can manually release the point
Offline Robert Davies  
#10 Posted : 06 May 2018 18:06:00(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
Its more likely point failure rather than signals

I'm not sure if there's a way they can manually release the point

If the point has failed to change to the correct position, the signal will not clear - end of story. I was not suggesting a failure of any kind, just a mis-routing.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline Webmaster  
#11 Posted : 06 May 2018 20:11:30(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Actually a bit relieving to see that some model railroad mistakes can be regarded as prototypical... BigGrin
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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