Is there anyone to explain to me .... Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

Previous Topic Next Topic

Thewolf		#1 Posted : 25 January 2018 16:19:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Hi everyone Is there anyone to explain to me ....the load compensation built in to the decoder of a loco, please ? Thank you for your replies Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

	Wish to join the discussion?! Login to your marklin-users.net community | Forum accountor Register a new forum account. Or Connect via Facebook

baggio		#2 Posted : 25 January 2018 16:48:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Toronto		Good question; I would like that explanation myself. I think it has something to do with automatically increasing/decreasing speed depending upon the number of wagons being pulled.
		Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#3 Posted : 25 January 2018 16:51:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Thewolf Is there anyone to explain to me ....the load compensation built in to the decoder of a loco, please? Basically it is "speed control", but "load compensation" sounds more impressive. The decoder tries to maintain a constant speed - uphill, flat track, or downhill - solo locomotive, short train, long train - the speed should be nearly the same (for most H0 gauge locomotives) or even exactly the same (e.g. for 0 gauge locomotives.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
3 users liked this useful post by H0		baggio, Thewolf, petestra
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

baggio		#4 Posted : 25 January 2018 16:55:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Toronto		Thank you for the reply, HO. Does this also work for curves? I ask because my ICE 2 (from start set) seems to slow down on its own when it reaches curves.
		Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#5 Posted : 25 January 2018 17:05:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: baggio Does this also work for curves? It works everywhere, but only when the motor still has reserves. If the decoder gives less than 100% power to the motor on straight track then the decoder can increase the power in curves to keep the speed constant. If the train already gets 100% on straight flat track then there will be a slow-down in curves or uphill. So this is a cool feature for people who like to see their trains at 30 km/h scale speed, but it has limitations for people who prefer 300 km/h scale speed.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
1 user liked this useful post by H0		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#6 Posted : 25 January 2018 17:13:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Thewolf Is there anyone to explain to me ....the load compensation built in to the decoder of a loco, please? Basically it is "speed control", but "load compensation" sounds more impressive. The decoder tries to maintain a constant speed - uphill, flat track, or downhill - solo locomotive, short train, long train - the speed should be nearly the same (for most H0 gauge locomotives) or even exactly the same (e.g. for 0 gauge locomotives. Thank you Tom But...does this relate to the ABV function? Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#7 Posted : 25 January 2018 17:36:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Thewolf But...does this relate to the ABV function? No. You can have ABV without load regulation. Theoretically you can also have load regulation without ABV - but I think all decoders with load regulation also offer ABV. ABV means slow acceleration and braking. It works better with load regulation, but can also be done without load regulation.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
1 user liked this useful post by H0		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

baggio		#8 Posted : 25 January 2018 17:43:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Toronto		-- Hope you don't feel I am hijacking this discussion, Wolfe. We are both interested about the same thing it seems. However, if need be, I could open up a separate discussion. HO: "... So this is a cool feature for people who like to see their trains at 30 km/h scale speed, but it has limitations for people who prefer 300 km/h scale speed." Actually, it is a cool feature even at 300 km/hr. The reason being that I do not obviously want the train to derail on curves , so slowing down on curves is what I would do personally to avoid derailments. This feature takes away the need for me to intervene. (My rule of thumb is that a loco has to be able to run fast enough so that I would have to decrease the speed when the train reaches a curve. If there is no such need, then the train is under powered.)
		Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#9 Posted : 25 January 2018 17:51:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Thewolf But...does this relate to the ABV function? No. You can have ABV without load regulation. Theoretically you can also have load regulation without ABV - but I think all decoders with load regulation also offer ABV. ABV means slow acceleration and braking. It works better with load regulation, but can also be done without load regulation. Thank you Tom I'm trying to understand ... I'm going to put a video ... the loco suffers in the climb A friend told me : '' the E-Loc climbing looks strange...almost as if the load compensation built in to the decoder was not working '' The values of CV 3 and 4 of the decoder have been reduced to 5, as recommended by the forum Itrain, which advised between 1 and 5 I I have a lot of trouble understanding Thank for your reply Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Roland		#10 Posted : 25 January 2018 18:24:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/11/2013(UTC) Posts: 333 Location: Toronto, Canada		Originally Posted by: baggio HO: "... So this is a cool feature for people who like to see their trains at 30 km/h scale speed, but it has limitations for people who prefer 300 km/h scale speed." Actually, it is a cool feature even at 300 km/hr. The reason being that I do not obviously want the train to derail on curves , so slowing down on curves is what I would do personally to avoid derailments. This feature takes away the need for me to intervene. (My rule of thumb is that a loco has to be able to run fast enough so that I would have to decrease the speed when the train reaches a curve. If there is no such need, then the train is under powered.) Silvano, my understanding is that "load compensation" won't slow the train down in the curve as you're hoping. What is does is attempt to maintain the same speed your loco was already travelling. So if your train slows down due to resistance in the curve, "load compensation" would try to speed it back up to the "pre-curve speed". If your train speeds up in the curve (e.g. downhill), it should slow your train down to the "pre-curve speed". Edit: And what HO was saying about limitations at 300km/h scale speed, if the loco is already at 100% output and slows down due to a curve/incline, it is not possible for it so speed up to compensate.
		My Layout Build | Märklin CS3+ | K-track | Merkur | Viessmann | LDT | iTrain | Modeling DB + SBB
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#11 Posted : 25 January 2018 20:10:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Thewolf A friend told me : '' the E-Loc climbing looks strange...almost as if the load compensation built in to the decoder was not working '' I cannot tell from the video whether the wheels of the loco start slipping or the motor of the loco is slowing down. If there are no feeder wires in that curve then the slow-down might also be caused by a voltage drop. But since the speed changes rather abruptly I think that a voltage drop is most likely not the cause. How do other locos behave going the same way with the same train?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#12 Posted : 25 January 2018 20:30:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: baggio -- Hope you don't feel I am hijacking this discussion, Wolfe. We are both interested about the same thing it seems. However, if need be, I could open up a separate discussion. HO: "... So this is a cool feature for people who like to see their trains at 30 km/h scale speed, but it has limitations for people who prefer 300 km/h scale speed." Actually, it is a cool feature even at 300 km/hr. The reason being that I do not obviously want the train to derail on curves , so slowing down on curves is what I would do personally to avoid derailments. This feature takes away the need for me to intervene. (My rule of thumb is that a loco has to be able to run fast enough so that I would have to decrease the speed when the train reaches a curve. If there is no such need, then the train is under powered.) Baggio Please , can you create another post? You mix mine Thank you
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#13 Posted : 25 January 2018 20:35:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		To moderators ... Please, would there be any way to move comments about the baggio problem to another post? Thank you I'm waiting for the move before continuing the conversation with Tom Thank you again Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

jvuye		#14 Posted : 25 January 2018 20:39:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,881 Location: South Western France		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Thewolf A friend told me : '' the E-Loc climbing looks strange...almost as if the load compensation built in to the decoder was not working '' I cannot tell from the video whether the wheels of the loco start slipping or the motor of the loco is slowing down. If there are no feeder wires in that curve then the slow-down might also be caused by a voltage drop. But since the speed changes rather abruptly I think that a voltage drop is most likely not the cause. How do other locos behave going the same way with the same train? ...and then there is the case of your S 2/6 Serge... And how steep is that climb? Hard to tell from the video . I don't know what your track maintenance routine consists of, but like HO, I'd venture to say that your rails **may be** a bit dirty/greasy. I use a bit of lighter fluid on a clean (light colored) rag, and rub that against the rails. The light color will highlight any residue/dirt/grease lifted from the rails. Then of course, you may need to clean up/replace the adherence tyres on your locos....like on that Treinshop Olaerts Type 29 of yours... Start to see a pattern? At least I think it's worth a try. Hope this helps. Jacques
		Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
2 users liked this useful post by jvuye		franciscohg, H0
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#15 Posted : 25 January 2018 20:57:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: jvuye but like HO, I'd venture to say that your rails **may be** a bit dirty/greasy. I did not think about dirty rails when I mentioned slipping wheels. But dirty rails or oily traction tyres could be involved. In a curve (at least) half of the loco wheels will slip anyway as the outer wheels go a longer way than the inner wheels. This increases the friction on the motor and reduces the tractive effort of the loco. It might help to run the train on the outer track as the incline is less steep. Yes, I now the design of the prebuilt layout so there have to be trains running uphill on the inner track. But still this is something I would test.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#16 Posted : 25 January 2018 20:57:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Thewolf A friend told me : '' the E-Loc climbing looks strange...almost as if the load compensation built in to the decoder was not working '' I cannot tell from the video whether the wheels of the loco start slipping or the motor of the loco is slowing down. If there are no feeder wires in that curve then the slow-down might also be caused by a voltage drop. But since the speed changes rather abruptly I think that a voltage drop is most likely not the cause. How do other locos behave going the same way with the same train? ...and then there is the case of your S 2/6 Serge... And how steep is that climb? Hard to tell from the video . I don't know what your track maintenance routine consists of, but like HO, I'd venture to say that your rails **may be** a bit dirty/greasy. I use a bit of lighter fluid on a clean (light colored) rag, and rub that against the rails. The light color will highlight any residue/dirt/grease lifted from the rails. Then of course, you may need to clean up/replace the adherence tyres on your locos....like on that Treinshop Olaerts Type 29 of yours... Start to see a pattern? At least I think it's worth a try. Hope this helps. Jacques no no Jacques. All my rails are ok. They are clean. I clean them once a week in several different ways and one after the other. Once a week a day is spent cleaning the rails in full: wagons cleaners, wagons vacuum cleaner, cleaning block 60140 Noch, Q tips, rubbing alcohol. I must be the only one to do that. I pledge. The loco suffers ... it skates ... the engine is racing a little . I see it and I hear it .....and this is not a power supply problem ... on the layout I have 6 inputs (red and brown) I think it's a rubber tire problem. I always thought that Marklin was stingy about this little problem and I always thought that all the drive wheels should be equipped with rubber tires and often this is not the case You re right Jacques I think that this is the same problem as B29 About Olaerts replied: their technician returns this Saturday Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#17 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:03:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: jvuye but like HO, I'd venture to say that your rails **may be** a bit dirty/greasy. I did not think about dirty rails when I mentioned slipping wheels. But dirty rails or oily traction tyres could be involved. In a curve (at least) half of the loco wheels will slip anyway as the outer wheels go a longer way than the inner wheels. This increases the friction on the motor and reduces the tractive effort of the loco. It might help to run the train on the outer track as the incline is less steep. Yes, I now the design of the prebuilt layout so there have to be trains running uphill on the inner track. But still this is something I would test. In fact this loco is not willing to ride on this portion of the circuit. His preferred path is the lower lane and the hidden train station area. The upper part of the layout is intended for powerful locos because of the slope of Heidelberg. It's like the B29. All steamers are reserved for the bottom portion. I was curious to know the result.
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#18 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:13:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		During the move the final layout will not include these two modules 80310 and 80320 ... they will be replaced by a helix. I trusted when buying these Noch modules that Mike had exactly the same....But the interior slope is steep, it is between 3.8% and 4% ... too steep even if Marklin says in his ads that 5% can be correct
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

baggio		#19 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:14:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: Thewolf It's like the B29. All steamers are reserved for the bottom portion. What does this mean?
		Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

baggio		#20 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:21:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: Thewolf ... they will be replaced by a helix. CAREFUL: The helix may not have any softer slope than you have now. The slope of my Noch helix is around 4% and I have not noticed any real problems with locos going up the slope. Perhaps just a tad of hesitation with some locos. I am really happy with this helix. (But I have disconnected it for now because of lack of space.)
		Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#21 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:24:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: baggio Originally Posted by: Thewolf It's like the B29. All steamers are reserved for the bottom portion. What does this mean? That means what it means baggio Heidelberg has a hidden 5-way station. On the bottom there are 2 parade routes ... at 2 extremes a turnout sends the trains to the hidden station. In the final layout the bottom tracks will be 3 times larger, since the layaout will be U-shaped like this: The present layout serves as "guinea pig" Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#22 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:29:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: baggio Originally Posted by: Thewolf ... they will be replaced by a helix. CAREFUL: The helix may not have any softer slope than you have now. The slope of my Noch helix is around 4% and I have not noticed any real problems with locos going up the slope. Perhaps just a tad of hesitation with some locos. I am really happy with this helix. (But I have disconnected it for now because of lack of space.) Sorry Baggio...but I do not agree with you ... it's a question of installation ... I saw Noch helix of 3% ,,, you know how to adjust your slope heights ... in other words you know adjust your laps
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#23 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:40:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Thewolf The loco suffers ... it skates ... the engine is racing a little . I see it and I hear it ... [...] I think it's a rubber tire problem. The load regulation keeps the wheels at a nearly constant speed - but when the wheels start slipping and skating then the load regulation no longer helps.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Minok		#24 Posted : 25 January 2018 21:46:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,310 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		My understanding of load compensation is the circuit on the motor controller board can detect the voltage and current changes to the motor. If the controller is delivering a specific voltage or current, and then the change in load (due to slope changes) results in a change in voltage/current detected that the controller did not itself institute, the controller can know the train is going up or down hill, and then apply more power, or reduce power to maintain the intended speed. However, that cannot compensate for dirty track power drop, wheel slippage, or twisted track, and if the motor controller is already delivering 100% of the power it can to the motor, there is no reserve to feed it to compensate for a drop due to load (as others have mentioned). The load can come from an incline or decline in the track but also a curve where friction from the loco and its cars adds to the load even on level ground (and adds to it on inclines)
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#25 Posted : 25 January 2018 22:04:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Minok My understanding of load compensation is the circuit on the motor controller board can detect the voltage and current changes to the motor. Typically the load compensation is based on Back EMF (electro-magnetic field). For a fraction of a second the decoder does not feed power to the motor and instead measures the voltage generated by the motor - like a bicycle dynamo generates power. Typically the decoder does not measure the current drawn by the motor. The current will increase uphill and decrease downhill anyway. I think there are more accurate ways to measure the speed of the motor, but Back EMF is the industrial standard.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
1 user liked this useful post by H0		Minok
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#26 Posted : 25 January 2018 22:52:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		After all your theoretical explanations (thank you ... I learned a lot) my problem is still there. I have several solutions: - or I add rubber tires, which was done in part but there is a removable part before we can not remove - Or it remains such and will not climb the top and roll down - Or I send her back to Mike's house for him As I have already sent 4 to Toronto, a fifth is ready. why not a sixth for Toronto Westend Trains In other words, more than a quarter of my fleet will make a trip to Toronto .... and I still have 15 to calibrate the speed by Itrain Ostie de tabarnak de mausus de marde !!!! Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

baggio		#27 Posted : 25 January 2018 23:22:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: Thewolf Ostie de tabarnak de mausus de marde !!!! My Google translator thinks this sentence is in Somalian - What is a "mausus"? You may want to send the loco to Mike and see how your loco fares on the incline in his layout. I doubt you can decrease the slope on the Noch helices - before you buy one, ask Mike if this is possible and how to do it. Buona notte da Toronto.
		Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#28 Posted : 25 January 2018 23:46:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: baggio Originally Posted by: Thewolf Ostie de tabarnak de mausus de marde !!!! My Google translator thinks this sentence is in Somalian - What is a "mausus"? You may want to send the loco to Mike and see how your loco fares on the incline in his layout. I doubt you can decrease the slope on the Noch helices - before you buy one, ask Mike if this is possible and how to do it. Buona notte da Toronto. Mausus...it's Quebec 'joual' ...which means '' damned'' ',You may want to send the loco to Mike and see how your loco fares on the incline in his layout.', This is what I said 'I doubt you can decrease the slope on the Noch helices'' You bet $ 100 Look at this : We can see the height adjustment, no ? I really think that I can. Never forget what Julius Caesar said about the Belgians Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#29 Posted : 26 January 2018 08:43:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Thewolf - or I add rubber tires, which was done in part but there is a removable part before we can not remove Do it at your own risk. Slipping wheels prevent the motor from overload. Adding traction tyres increases the load of the motor. Märklin say that compliance with radio interference regulations must be re-evaluated after adding traction tyres. Could it be that there already are four traction tyres? More is not always better, you want to keep some blank wheels for good ground contact. If there are only two traction tyres then increasing to four should be no problem - usually easily done ordering replacement wheelsets. It's a pity Märklin no longer indicate in the product description how many traction tyres there are.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#30 Posted : 26 January 2018 10:26:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Thewolf - or I add rubber tires, which was done in part but there is a removable part before we can not remove Do it at your own risk. Slipping wheels prevent the motor from overload. Adding traction tyres increases the load of the motor. Märklin say that compliance with radio interference regulations must be re-evaluated after adding traction tyres. Could it be that there already are four traction tyres? More is not always better, you want to keep some blank wheels for good ground contact. If there are only two traction tyres then increasing to four should be no problem - usually easily done ordering replacement wheelsets. It's a pity Märklin no longer indicate in the product description how many traction tyres there are. Tom...Agree with you and that's why I chose the referral solution to Mike, my dealer My job is accounting ... not HO train engines Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

river6109		#31 Posted : 26 January 2018 11:44:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,707 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		The loco you're referring to is I think a model BR E 44 and its all metal with 2 axles powered and 2 rubbertyres on 1 axle, or it is a Br E 104, E 04 which has a plastic housing, to carry 3 carriages up a hill shouldn't effect any loco unless your rubber tyres are lose and the weight of the loco is not heavy enough to do it without rubber tyres.
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
		WWW
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#32 Posted : 26 January 2018 14:08:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: river6109 The loco you're referring to is I think a model BR E 44 and its all metal with 2 axles powered and 2 rubbertyres on 1 axle, or it is a Br E 104, E 04 which has a plastic housing, to carry 3 carriages up a hill shouldn't effect any loco unless your rubber tyres are lose and the weight of the loco is not heavy enough to do it without rubber tyres. John... the loco of the video is a BR 144 (37443)...the BR E 104 is his sister or she is in the series before..final that's what I think I also have the BR 44.but I did not talk about it on this post What you write about that they should be able to climb a slope like mine reassures me .... and nobody nor me thought about the problem of weight. In any case they are leaving for Toronto. I do not take risks: a problem with a loco ... she's going to Toronto. I know a lot of marklinists who have had problems with Marklin because they have tried what on their loco without any skill or knowledge. There is no shame in saying: I am not able. Trying to do something when you're incompetent is stupid and irresponsible. But I admire guys like you who can do anything with a loco. me ... pffft forget it Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#33 Posted : 26 January 2018 14:08:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		The loco is Märklin 37443, BR 144, metal body, metal frame, with four powered axles. Number of traction tyres unknown to me.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#34 Posted : 26 January 2018 14:13:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: H0 The loco is Märklin 37443, BR 144, metal body, metal frame, with four powered axles. Number of traction tyres unknown to me. Tom...I saw two wheel drive axles with 1 and a half pairs of rubber tires (so 3) ... I put a fourth rubber tire
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

baggio		#35 Posted : 26 January 2018 14:15:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: river6109 ... to carry 3 carriages up a hill shouldn't effect any loco unless your rubber tyres are lose and the weight of the loco is notheavy enough to do it without rubber tyres. I think the slope is too steep. A softer slope should result in a better performance.
		Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#36 Posted : 26 January 2018 14:50:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: baggio Originally Posted by: river6109 ... to carry 3 carriages up a hill shouldn't effect any loco unless your rubber tyres are lose and the weight of the loco is notheavy enough to do it without rubber tyres. I think the slope is too steep. A softer slope should result in a better performance. You repeat what I said
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#37 Posted : 26 January 2018 15:01:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		These locos : no problem...although at the end of the slope, they slow down a bit ... but that's normal I think I think I'll go slowly to the steamer operation on the bottom and the hidden station as I explained much earlier in this post but I'm not panicking ... I'll wait for Dr. Marklin's verdict Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#38 Posted : 26 January 2018 15:20:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		I just found this about these slopes. It's been a few years '' Read on the Noch website: Hinweis: Die Basis für den Aufbau der »Heidelberg« ist immer die Kombination aus linkem und rechtem Wendemodul und Bahnhofsmodul. Die Steigung der Innenstrecke beträgt ca. 5,2 %, die der Außenstrecke 4,7 %. Translation : Instruction: The basis for the construction (structure) "Heidelberg" is always the combination of the left and right (right) turn module and station module. The rise in interior space is about 5.2%, outdoor space 4.7%. '' Actually it's way too much ...a big mistake to have bought this concept... . Will need to remedy this for the final layout in 2 years Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#39 Posted : 26 January 2018 23:39:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Hi everyone Really I am surprised, amazed, just as you want. I did the speed calibration of my smallest steamer, the Belgian series 98 (37163) I say to myself: ''I'm going to try it and never will it climb the slope'' My God she climbed like a big without losing speed without skating. I'll do a little video tomorrow Have a nice evening Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf		baggio
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Purellum		#40 Posted : 27 January 2018 05:36:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,500 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Thewolf Hi everyone Really I am surprised, amazed, just as you want. I did the speed calibration of my smallest steamer, the Belgian series 98 (37163) I say to myself: ''I'm going to try it and never will it climb the slope'' My God she climbed like a big without losing speed without skating. Julius Caesar wrote: Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae. Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Goofy		#41 Posted : 27 January 2018 06:13:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,012		I notice here that you show Noch ready made plastic landscape. Those are well know high climbing hill and downward hill with over 3 % degree!! Not sure but to see the video it looks like 6-7 % degree.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#42 Posted : 27 January 2018 08:04:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy Not sure but to see the video it looks like 6-7 % degree. Let him who hath understanding have a glance at post #38. It's just 5.2% and 4.7%.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#43 Posted : 27 January 2018 10:48:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: Goofy I notice here that you show Noch ready made plastic landscape. Those are well know high climbing hill and downward hill with over 3 % degree!! Not sure but to see the video it looks like 6-7 % degree. Goofy...Do you make an effort to read what I write? Or do you consider what others write is not worthy of your attention? This isn't the first time I've noticed such behavior on your part See my post 38 Thank you for your attention... if, however, you consider it useful Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

David Dewar		#44 Posted : 27 January 2018 13:02:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,340 Location: Scotland		I have the same Noch board at one end of my layout. I have a station at the top which is part of a shuttle run. Not had any problems with several locos going up and speed is constant. Maybe it is just one loco that you have that slows down. You can make it a great board when houses and trees and lights are added.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#45 Posted : 27 January 2018 15:11:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: David Dewar I have the same Noch board at one end of my layout. I have a station at the top which is part of a shuttle run. Not had any problems with several locos going up and speed is constant. Maybe it is just one loco that you have that slows down. You can make it a great board when houses and trees and lights are added. Hi David I agree with you
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Thewolf		#46 Posted : 27 January 2018 15:19:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Hi everyone As promised Please watch It also means I think it's the locos that I send to Mike and don't climb that have a problem. What do you think? Have a nice week end Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Users browsing this topic