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mLD3 vs mSD3 - locomotive decoder upgrade
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Offline ae66green  
#1 Posted : 23 January 2018 22:58:04(UTC)
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ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
I have an old locomotive using the FX decoder with high efficiency propulsion, from which the maximum speed and acceleration/baking delay can be adjusted by turning the 2 different screws on the decoder itself. I want to upgrade the locomotive so that it can have operating sound, but when I searched for a decoder from the Marklin website, it has mLD, mSD, mLD3, mSD3, I could not figure out what is what and which one I should use for my locomotive??? I guess the mLDS/mSD are older version of the mLD3/mSD3. But I have no idea whether I should buy the mLD3 or mSD3 for the conversion/upgrade?? Where I can get the instruction how to do the conversion?? The locomotive I have on hand is the Swiss locomotive Re460.
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 23 January 2018 23:09:45(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
I have an old locomotive using the FX decoder with high efficiency propulsion, from which the maximum speed and acceleration/baking delay can be adjusted by turning the 2 different screws on the decoder itself. I want to upgrade the locomotive so that it can have operating sound, but when I searched for a decoder from the Marklin website, it has mLD, mSD, mLD3, mSD3, I could not figure out what is what and which one I should use for my locomotive??? I guess the mLDS/mSD are older version of the mLD3/mSD3. But I have no idea whether I should buy the mLD3 or mSD3 for the conversion/upgrade?? Where I can get the instruction how to do the conversion?? The locomotive I have on hand is the Swiss locomotive Re460.


The mSD3 is the sound version of the mLD3. These are the latest versions of the Marklin decoder family. The variants are as follows:

60975 is the Sound decoder for a Steam loco including plug-in board
60976 is the sound decoder for a Diesel loco including plug-in board
60977 is the sound decoder for an electric loco including plug-in board
60985 is the Sound decoder for a Steam loco with wire tails
60986 is the sound decoder for a Diesel loco with wire tails
60987 is the sound decoder for an electric loco with wire tails
60978 is the sound decoder for a diesel loco from the "hobby" range
60979 is the sound decoder for an electric loco from the "hobby" range

There are also different versions available for the non-sound mLD3 decoders
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 23 January 2018 23:14:12(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
The locomotive I have on hand is the Swiss locomotive Re460.
If the loco has a C Sine motor, conversion will be a bit more complicated.
"fx" decoder and a 39xxx ref number indicate a C Sine motor - at least for the Re 460.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ae66green  
#4 Posted : 24 January 2018 17:12:17(UTC)
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ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
My Re 460 does not use C-sine motor, it came from an earlier version of digital starter set with the control80f (6021), the locomotive only has limited functions: head light, long distance head light, acceleration/braking delay override. Does anyone know how to install the mSD3 decoder to that locomotive?
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 24 January 2018 17:14:43(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
My Re 460 does not use C-sine motor, it came from an earlier version of digital starter set with the control80f (6021), the locomotive only has limited functions: head light, long distance head light, acceleration/braking delay override. Does anyone know how to install the mSD3 decoder to that locomotive?


The wire colours are the same. You need to just change the decoder and connect the new decoder wires to the same places as the old one.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline ktsolias  
#6 Posted : 24 January 2018 17:20:52(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
From the description (a photo of the inside will help a lot) seems that the loco has an 6090 or 60902 decoder and c90 motor

In this case you need a 60972 mLD3 or 60977 mSD3 (sound) decoder.

The installation is strait forward but take note of the way that the old decoder is connected. The complication is that there is a small PCB for the Swiss lights changeover.

Publish a photo of the inside and we shall give you more detailed info

Regards

Costas
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2018 17:26:50(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
The wire colours are the same.
Yes, if you take the decoder with the 21MTC connector - which is the highly recommended version anyway.

The decoder with the 8-pin NEM plug uses different colours.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ae66green  
#8 Posted : 24 January 2018 20:35:01(UTC)
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ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Yes it should be the 6090 or 60902 decoder with a c90 motor, I will try to take a photo. The starter set number is 29859 (110 volt version).
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Offline ktsolias  
#9 Posted : 24 January 2018 21:29:23(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Yes it is a 60902 decoder

The set was produced 2000-2003

With this decoder there is no any problem to replace and use the 60977 mSD/3

The wire color code is the same but there are more functions (4 AUX instant 2 AUX) so you need to unsolder some wires or to put more functions (Cabin lights may be)

Just solder the wires where the old ones were (same color), there is plenty of space for the speaker.

The other locomotive Re 4/4II has the same decoder.

Good luck

Regards

Costas
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Offline ae66green  
#10 Posted : 25 January 2018 01:59:10(UTC)
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ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Thanks

Edited by user 27 January 2018 00:14:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 25 January 2018 05:09:23(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Mr. Canada,

you could make more changes as it was recommended a 21 pin decoder, the sub board for the Swiss lighting system is based on a ground connection for the front & rear lights, if you use Led's (needs a resistor as well = 1000ohm) you can't use this board unless you put in a rectifier which stops the lights to flicker. as you can clearly see on your first picture the screw that holds the board is also a ground connection for the board.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 25 January 2018 08:02:13(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
if you use Led's (needs a resistor as well = 1000ohm) you can't use this board unless you put in a rectifier which stops the lights to flicker. as you can clearly see on your first picture the screw that holds the board is also a ground connection for the board.
One can see that the loco already has LEDs and that the grounded connection on the extra PCB (which leads to flickering light bulbs) is not used.

Sorry, John, but I think you are on the wrong track.
Replacing the decoder "in situ" seems like a good idea. Most likely no extra resistors needed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ktsolias  
#13 Posted : 25 January 2018 09:25:18(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
if you use Led's (needs a resistor as well = 1000ohm) you can't use this board unless you put in a rectifier which stops the lights to flicker. as you can clearly see on your first picture the screw that holds the board is also a ground connection for the board.
One can see that the loco already has LEDs and that the grounded connection on the extra PCB (which leads to flickering light bulbs) is not used.

Sorry, John, but I think you are on the wrong track.
Replacing the decoder "in situ" seems like a good idea. Most likely no extra resistors needed.


I agree totally with you

No change needed

The orange wires (U+) are on the correct side.
Just solder the wires exactly where the old were

Costas
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Offline ae66green  
#14 Posted : 25 January 2018 14:38:36(UTC)
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ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Thank you everyone for your information.

After install the decoder, do I need to configure any CV values? I am using the CS2 with software version 4.2.1 and I have found that it is quite confusing to configure the CV, there is no specific instruction to tell how to update the CV, is there any instructions or video I can refer to?
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Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 25 January 2018 14:59:20(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
After install the decoder, do I need to configure any CV values?
The motor configuration of the decoder should be correct for the motor.
And the loco should register via mfx and you do not have to mess with individual CVs, the CS2 will show you all available options.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline TEEWolf  
#16 Posted : 11 February 2018 00:01:47(UTC)
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TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
Thank you everyone for your information.

After install the decoder, do I need to configure any CV values? I am using the CS2 with software version 4.2.1 and I have found that it is quite confusing to configure the CV, there is no specific instruction to tell how to update the CV, is there any instructions or video I can refer to?


In the Maerklin Magazine (MM) 06/2015 to MM 06/2016 was an series all about the new decoder familiy mSD3. These articles you find in the German section for the MM at Maerklin's hompage. As I was informed, you have no access to them via the English side of this homepage. You must go there by the German version.

https://www.maerklin.de/...men-specials-und-serien/

In chapter 3 of the Decoder-ABC it is documented (including pictures) how to build in the decoder and to configure it.

https://www.maerklin.de/...pecial_MM_2016_03_04.pdf

As so often these articles are in German. Either you translate it with e.g. https://www.deepl.com/translator or you try to find somebody who still has the MM issues from 2015/2016 available in English. Because these articles have been part of the MM and this is in English available. Sorry, but I do not know where you may get these Magazines.
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